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View Poll Results: Alternative Corvette
ethanol 13 22.41%
natural gas 2 3.45%
propane 0 0%
hydrogen 6 10.34%
biodiesel 0 0%
electricity 4 6.90%
methanol 0 0%
p-series fuels 1 1.72%
gasoline forever 32 55.17%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-26-2006, 10:34 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Old 05-30-2006, 11:34 AM   #17 (permalink)
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E85 would be nice. It's way cheapier than gas, at least right now. I think it's $2.58 a gal where i live. My buddy had a newer TT Mustang with over 900 rwhp that ran on E 85. It ran great on the street as well. I wish i could some how tune my car for E 85.
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Old 07-11-2007, 10:30 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Alternative Fuels in a Corvette?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z O SICK View Post
E85 would be nice. It's way cheapier than gas, at least right now. I think it's $2.58 a gal where i live. My buddy had a newer TT Mustang with over 900 rwhp that ran on E 85. It ran great on the street as well. I wish i could some how tune my car for E 85.
Does anyone know why we could not run E85 in our Vettes? I hear E85 is highly corrosive so u gotta remove metal in the fuel lines but other than that..why couldnt we do it with some tuning?
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Old 07-12-2007, 05:47 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Alternative Fuels in a Corvette?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jub jub View Post
I'll take gas any day!
...next time I see you I'll make sure I pass you some!

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Old 07-12-2007, 07:46 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Alternative Fuels in a Corvette?

Surprisingly, most people, and those in this thread, assume the question is simply a price question. Which is cheaper...gas vs E85? I am very strongly of the opinion that this is very short sighted. Consider that virtually every nation exporting crude oil to us HATES us. It will become an issue of availability, not simply price. Consider what would happen to our economy if we got cut off again, similar to the situation in the 70's. Our economy would grind to a halt very quickly. The ridiculous "strategic oil reserve", if they haven't pissed it away like Slick Willy did in a vain attempt to mitigate gas prices (which is NOT why it was created), would last about 3 months max. Also think about how much fuel our military requires.

I would buy a flex fuel vehicle for 2 key reasons, especially a Vette.
1. I would love to send my money, at any price per gallon, to Americans who make ethanol, and stop sending my money to terrorist nations who use the money to kill us.
2. When we get cut off, and can't get enough gas, then ethanol is an alternative to keep us going.

Given that the direct manufacturing cost to build a flex fuel vehicle is only a few hundred dollars, I would require all cars sold in the US to be flex. This has several benefits. It creates demand for ethanol, which will increase its availability and lower its cost. It also creates a base of transportation that can continue if gas gets cut off (by political or military action). Given the incredible growing demand coming from nations such as China and India, and the growing competition for supply, there will be a war for energy supplies in the not distant future. Our country is doing nothing to prepare for this.

OK. Rant over.
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Old 07-13-2007, 04:05 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Alternative Fuels in a Corvette?

I have driven a GM all electric car and it drove very well. The one I drove had a motor at each wheel and was driven by wire, no direct connection to drivetrain or steering. It took off well, so for a R&D prototype it was pretty cool. This was probably '02 or '03.
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Old 11-26-2007, 07:26 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Alternative Fuels in a Corvette?

Quote:
It creates demand for ethanol, which will increase its availability and lower its cost.
No offense, but obviously you're not an economist. The law of supply and demand will result in a price increase the greater the demand, regardless of whether or not the supply is sufficient. When the supply is insufficient and the demand is high, the price is even higher.

Since Ethanol is a domestically produced, renewable-based fuel, it is already helping meet some needs now and will in the short-term future as well. However, one of the issues facing Ethanol based fuels is the fact the supply is not nearly great enough to meet potentially future demands in the event of an acute gasoline shortage, let alone a chronic one, and thus is not a long term replacement for fossil fuels, such as gasoline.

Therefore, as demand rises and supply tightens, cost will rise.

In addition, the predominant source of Ethanol is corn (as well as other grains and starches), but not enough can be grown to meet potential future demands. Agriculturally speaking, fields can't produce the same crop year in and year out, even when soil supplementation is employed.

Furthermore, Ethanol results in a fuel mileage decrease of upwards of 25% compared to Gasoline, yet the cost per gallon is essentially equivalent.

The bottom line is, it's a niche product and will not meet future demands. That said, look for virtually all future GM high performance vehicles to be E85 compatible, along with being forced induction. There are many reasons for a trend toward FI engines as I've stated before but the fact they can also take advantage of higher octane fuels, which Ethanol is, is yet another.

Last edited by No Doubt; 11-26-2007 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 11-27-2007, 04:57 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Alternative Fuels in a Corvette?

I don't need too be an economist to understand the laws of supply and demand, just a businessman. If you increase demand for a product, the market will respond and increase its availability. Higher production output brings an associated reduction in production cost which, generally, results in reduced consumer prices. However, competitive forces will also impact the consumer pricing. In this case, the ethanol is competing with gas, so its selling price must consider the current price of gasoline, including any additional mileage "penalty" associated with its use.

I am talking about trying to create an alternative based upon available materials and technology to protect us now. Despite the fact that its cost is high relative to gas now, will be irrelevant when we have a oil/gas availability problem. Plus, the price of gas will continue to rise, creating opportunities for other. more costly alternatives. Some of our suppliers WILL cut us off during this period of substantially growingly world demand for oil. This factor is different this time compared to last time (the oil problem in the 70s). My premise is that increasing demand for ethanol will increase its availability and would ultimately yield lower cost, unless acted upon by market forces to keep the price higher (even if/when production costs are falling). My concern is that we have no working alternatives to gasoline in the short run. It is true that currently, much of the ethanol is derived from corn, but there is a lot of work being done using other, more efficient food stuffs. There is a company here in Georgia making ethanol from pine tree waste (bark and stumps), an abundant material here in the South where pine is used in paper-making.

Use of FI engines will do nothing material to affect our total oil consumption and would offer no help during a fuel shortage. In any case, use of ethanol will be, at best, a short term alternative while we work our way to hydrogen. But Americans seem to be simply focused on (whining about) the price of gas and are unwilling to take ANY additional action to get us off oil and to meaningfully work toward any of the other alternatives, so our economy does not suffer if and when we can't get the oil we consume. I believe that ethanol represents an available alternative now and can yield jobs for Americans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by No Doubt View Post
No offense, but obviously you're not an economist. The law of supply and demand will result in a price increase the greater the demand, regardless of whether or not the supply is sufficient. When the supply is insufficient and the demand is high, the price is even higher.

Since Ethanol is a domestically produced, renewable-based fuel, it is already helping meet some needs now and will in the short-term future as well. However, one of the issues facing Ethanol based fuels is the fact the supply is not nearly great enough to meet potentially future demands in the event of an acute gasoline shortage, let alone a chronic one, and thus is not a long term replacement for fossil fuels, such as gasoline.

Therefore, as demand rises and supply tightens, cost will rise.

In addition, the predominant source of Ethanol is corn (as well as other grains and starches), but not enough can be grown to meet potential future demands. Agriculturally speaking, fields can't produce the same crop year in and year out, even when soil supplementation is employed.

Furthermore, Ethanol results in a fuel mileage decrease of upwards of 25% compared to Gasoline, yet the cost per gallon is essentially equivalent.

The bottom line is, it's a niche product and will not meet future demands. That said, look for virtually all future GM high performance vehicles to be E85 compatible, along with being forced induction. There are many reasons for a trend toward FI engines as I've stated before but the fact they can also take advantage of higher octane fuels, which Ethanol is, is yet another.
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Old 11-27-2007, 07:55 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Alternative Fuels in a Corvette?

There are several facts mentioned in different areas of this thread that should be put together.
1. Ethanol has 25% less energy than current gasoline.
2. Ethanol made from corn produces 1.3 times the energy that is required to manufacture it. Based on 1 and 2. Ethanol from corn is a loosing proposition. Meanwhile, the use of corn for ethanol production is driving food cost up like cereals, chips, milk (corn feed is more expensive now), butter, etc.
3. Ethanol made from sugar cane produces over 8 times the energy that is required to manufacture it. This is the method that Brazil is using for their successful ethanol manufacturing.
4. US have very limited capability to produce sugar cane. Sugar cane is better produced in the tropics/subtropics. Great quantities of sugar cane will have to be imported to the US to be of significant impact on our oil consumption.

Another area that has been affected hard is the production of gasoline. Louissiana had a third of the US gasoline refinaries, these were destroyed by the Katrina hurricane. Gasoline prices/availability are affected not only by the oil prices/availability but by the refining capacity. This was evident this summer when Iran had to ration their gasoline when they actually export oil. Iran gasoline refinaries are barely keeping up with their local demands. This is also evident by the steep gasoline prices in California. California gasoline composition requirements are different to that of other states and special refining manufacturing is required for them, and it is limited by the refining companies driving their gasoline prices up.

While alternatives energy productions are developed, ie; sugar cane ethanol, hydrogen fuel cells, lithium-ion batteries, etc, we should be tapping into our oil reserves mustly in Alaska and increasing our refining capacity

Last edited by Juan Gonzalez; 11-27-2007 at 08:05 AM.
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Old 11-27-2007, 10:34 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Alternative Fuels in a Corvette?

Quote:
Does anyone know why we could not run E85 in our Vettes? I hear E85 is highly corrosive so u gotta remove metal in the fuel lines but other than that..why couldnt we do it with some tuning?
The answer to your last question "why couldnt we do it with some tuning?", also answers your first one "Does anyone know why we could not run E85 in our Vettes?"

Quote:
I hear E85 is highly corrosive so u gotta remove metal in the fuel lines
That's true, however, it isn't only some metals that are incompatible with E85, but also non-synthetic gaskets and seals. In addition, E85 vehicles use sensors that determine the alcohol content in the fuel and signal the PCM to change things such as the ignition timing, fuel flow rate and AFR. The current Corvette does not meet either of these requirements.

I suspect the "ZR-1" will however.
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Old 11-27-2007, 06:40 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Alternative Fuels in a Corvette?

Well, if Pratt & Miller/Katech can do it...



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Old 11-27-2007, 06:54 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Alternative Fuels in a Corvette?

GM can do it, has done it and currently IS doing it. GM already has many E85 compatible vehicles on the road. As I said, I suspect the ZR-1 and almost certainly the C7 will be E85 compatible.

However, if you mean take an existing non E85 compatible car and retrofit it, then yes, although it may not be economically feasible as E85 costs as much as gasoline. And that is if you can get it in your location. There is virtually none available around here.

As I've said before, E85 is a supplemental, niche market product. Although it does help to slightly reduce the dependency on foreign oil for example, it can't be manufactured in sufficient, sustainable quantities to be anything more than that.

Last edited by No Doubt; 11-27-2007 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:31 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Poll: Alternative Fuels in a Corvette?

I run 91 with an ECS meth kit. Car makes 745 rear wheel on it

I would run 93 if it was available here in California Car made 794 on it

i would ditch the Meth kit and run E85 if we had more gas stations that provided it. I drive my car way too much to try and SEARCH for a gas station. I am sure I would get at least 800 rearwheel on it, but its still a street car, no need to keep gallons of it at home.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:40 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Alternative Fuels in a Corvette?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdzee View Post
Surprisingly, most people, and those in this thread, assume the question is simply a price question. Which is cheaper...gas vs E85? I am very strongly of the opinion that this is very short sighted. Consider that virtually every nation exporting crude oil to us HATES us. It will become an issue of availability, not simply price. Consider what would happen to our economy if we got cut off again, similar to the situation in the 70's. Our economy would grind to a halt very quickly. The ridiculous "strategic oil reserve", if they haven't pissed it away like Slick Willy did in a vain attempt to mitigate gas prices (which is NOT why it was created), would last about 3 months max. Also think about how much fuel our military requires.

I would buy a flex fuel vehicle for 2 key reasons, especially a Vette.
1. I would love to send my money, at any price per gallon, to Americans who make ethanol, and stop sending my money to terrorist nations who use the money to kill us.
2. When we get cut off, and can't get enough gas, then ethanol is an alternative to keep us going.

Given that the direct manufacturing cost to build a flex fuel vehicle is only a few hundred dollars, I would require all cars sold in the US to be flex. This has several benefits. It creates demand for ethanol, which will increase its availability and lower its cost. It also creates a base of transportation that can continue if gas gets cut off (by political or military action). Given the incredible growing demand coming from nations such as China and India, and the growing competition for supply, there will be a war for energy supplies in the not distant future. Our country is doing nothing to prepare for this.

OK. Rant over.
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