Z06Vette.com - Corvette Z06 Forum

DJWorm · 09-16-2003, 09:11 AM

Recently Ferrari decided to upgrade its 360 Modena.

This is a car that is comparable to the Z06 albeit somewhat more expensive. However their plan was to turn the Modena from a "Street Car that can be Raced" into a "Race Car that can be driven on the Street". Subtle but significant.

What they ended up with was the Challenge Stradale

Their goal was to drop the Modena's lap time at Fiorano (1.85mi)
by 3 seconds

To do this they needed to increase grip in the corners, acceleration and braking. They needed to increase handling, increase HP and decrease weight. They increased the lateral acceleration (cornering) 0.2g's, lowering the CG 15 mm; increased roll stiffness 10%, and adding 50% more downforce.

Here's what they did:

Aerodynamically they increased the lip of the front spoiler and kicked up the rear deck lid and spoiler, while recontouring the rocker panels and added a rear undertray with longitudinal turning vanes (ala F1). Note: raising the rear spoiler 2 inches is the the same as adding 6"x70" wing!! But it adds downforce with out increasing drag. It is also more effective at lower speeds whereas a wing is only drag until 125 MPH.

The HP increase was done by increasing CR to 11.2:1 and polishing and port matching the intake and exhaust ports, redesigned combustion chamber, polished the intake manifold, larger MAF, revised timing, revised valve springs and high flow exhaust. This boosted the HP from 400 to 425 at 8500 RPM on the 3.6L V8 with four cams and 5 valves per cylinder. Oh yeah, they installed Titanium connecting rods!

They also coupled the 6% HP increase with weight reduction, dropping 242#'s to 2,822 #'s. They did this by using an Aluminum frame, and extensive use of Carbon Fiber in the door panels, racing seat shells, underbody tray, interior panels, and airbox, in addition to light weight glass and lexan windows. The also used Titanium springs on the coil-over units and Brembo's Carbon/Ceramic composite brake rotors.

Suspension wise besides the Titanium springs, they used a stiffer spring (25% front/15% rear) and a stiffer rear sway bar and stiffer shock dampening. The suspension is electronicly selectable and damped in either "Sport" or "Race" mode.

The tranny is straight from F1 and paddle shifted. When you go to the Race Mode the shifts are accelerated to a point where they are as fast as you can think about it. Besides having Active Hadling and Traction Control (which is limited in Race Mode) it has F1 Launch Control. Turn the ASR OFF, select LC, step on the brake, REV to the desired rate and let OFF the brake. You get the optimum wheel spin per grip and shifting at the fastes and best point.

No cupholders, no Sat Nav, no mats.

Downside, it's a mere $200,000.

However Chevy should be able to better for a bit less.

Quick96 · 09-16-2003, 09:35 AM

Thanks for the info, I knew Ferrari was going to be doing something to the modena, with Porsches GT2 and the X50 option, as well as the new vette there is stiff competition.

JBsZ06 · 09-20-2003, 05:57 AM

Can't find the article at this moment..but I believe it was an excellent review by Automobile magazine..and the really cool part about the new Ferrari is not so much the absolute performance improvement but the fact that the car was tuned...

To make the driver feel as close as possible to driving a race car..everything even down to the exhaust..

It s wasn' t so much tuned for absolute maximum power but rather to create as much power as possible and still invoke the sound of a race car.

They say the guys who are buying this new model..not only want the speed...and performance but the entire race car driving experience for the street..

And this car being made just delivers it in full.

Great review DJ Worm! Cool...

Of course it probably is all bs and Ferrari just made this whole press release in automobile magazines up up to cover the fact that Lambo/audi /Porsche/Viper and yes Corvette are kicking its butt....

I'd say 90 % of corvette owners easily do these Stradalle (sp) mods to their cars...

Most of the mods that Ferrari tacks on about 40 to 50 grand...(ouch) we do as enthusiasts like clockwork..

Think about it...for a minute...

Lower the car 15mm's?
Change the exhaust note?
Increase power 15%

Sounds almost like what we all do in some way or another for a lot less than the 25% of our vehicles cost...forget about the 40 or 50 grand surcharge taked onto the price of the vehicle..

The great part about it...is the new Lambo Gallardo enters the market segment of this most beautiful Ferrari...

As does Porsches GT2..and the upcoming mid engined Ford GT which is getting rave reviews..

The question I have...Has Ferrari gone far enough from a performance perspective or is it time to punch out that awesome sounding little V8 ?

Will the upcoming midengined Ferrari 420 be enough of a performance increase to maintain Ferrari's performance image and edge?

The funny part is...I don't think the Ferrari guys really give a sh!t..

and you know what...???? I don't think I blame them.

I happen to like the looks of the stock 360 over the stradelle (sp)

Just shooting the breeze.

The_Dustman · 09-20-2003, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JBsZ06
Of course it probably is all bs and Ferrari just made this whole press release in automobile magazines up up to cover the fact that Lambo/audi /Porsche/Viper and yes Corvette are kicking its butt....

Did you watch 03 LeMans? Do you follow the American LeMans series? Ferrari is really the only competition Corvette has. And yes Corvette is doing great this yr in the American Series (leads series with a healthy point lead) - but Ferrari took #1,#2 last race in CA but #1 was DQ'ed and so Vette took #2,#3. And lets not mention the embarassment at the France LeMans this year (we needed that hat trick with the CE vette this yr, YES it was an embarassment).

I don't see your logic; Ferrari is Corvettes main competition in racing as the world knows for at least the last 3 years in GTS. I think you should define "kicking its butt" when you refer to Ferrari as you just did. Check the stats yourself if you must.

In racing - its Corvette / Ferrari almost exclusively in the GTS class - someone back me up on this fact please. I really don't see where you got 4 other cars in that mix "kicking Ferraris butt".

Dustin

spdrcrj · 09-20-2003, 09:08 PM

I love Ferrari's and have wanted one since I can remember. I was going to wait until next sep and try to get a F355. I could afford to buy the car but would have become a slave to its maintanence costs. I've lowered my car at least 15mm. By next weekend, will have a better exhaust note. Though not a full 15% hp increase will have bumped my hp by about 25 or so, all for the measly sum of about $1k. Now those are the kind of upgrade costs I'm into.

JBsZ06 · 09-20-2003, 09:49 PM

Dustman..I would say don't get so worked up.

I was just joking around. The ferrari 360 is a nice car but from a performance perspective its not "all that" The street car and this Challenge Stradale "hotted up" version are more about the tactile feel of a race car for the select executive who has 200,000 grand burning a hole in his pocket.

Its not only my words but the words of "automobile magazine editors.. I happen to quote the concept these reporters were trying to convey because in all honesty I believe them to be quite insightful not only of the Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale
owners but also of most sports car owners..

Its not so much the specific performance any of the four or five sports car I mentioned has..but the intimate feeling you get as you begin to extract whatever any of these cars have to offer.

Its not so much an insult to the Ferrari as a complement.

As far as comparing the Z06 to a 360 (even the Challenge Stradale) Personally I feel the Z06 would take it. And thats why I used the somewhat overstated.."KICK ITS BUTT" but hey..whose mincing words here.

The 360 Challenge Stradale
driven by a good driver will be in my opinion beaten by a Z06 with a few of the usual mods many on this site has..(for very few dollars) Again with a good driver at the wheel.

Dustman before you get to quoting racing stats etc.. That means very little to a comparision of the Challenge Stradale
and the Z06..both of which are production cars.

BTW...like I said..I believe the Ferrari 360 to be a very fine..if not one of the most beautiful sports cars in the world and an excellent performer..

The Viper..the Porsche 911 GT2, the Corvette Z06 and the new Lamboghini Gallardo (and probably the Ford GT) just happen to outperform it even in this newest " performance iteration" that only costs an extra 40 grand over the 160?

BTW...checking the market ..the Ferrari 360 is so hot..I've often seen preowned examples going in the past for as high as a quarter of a million dollars..

Yes its a fine car..in fact its among my favorite ferraris..The markup over list is insane though.. IMHO..and so is the list..

I believe this Challenge Stradale
is a marketing ploy to stem the tide of competitors successfully erroding the " ferrari IMAGE"

A good one at that.

I hope you don't see this conversation as adversarial but rather enjoyable.

I really do admire the Ferrari 360.

The_Dustman · 09-20-2003, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JBsZ06
Dustman..I would say don't get so worked up. I was just joking around. The ferrari 360 is a nice car but from a performance perspective its not "all that" The street car and this Challenge Stradale "hotted up" version are more about the tactile feel of a race car for the select executive who has 200,000 grand burning a hole in his pocket.

Its not only my words but the words of "automobile magazine editors.. I happen to quote the concept these reporters were trying to convey because in all honesty I believe them to be quite insightful not only of the Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale
owners but also of most sports car owners..

Its not so much the specific performance any of the four or five sports car I mentioned has..but the intimate feeling you get as you begin to extract whatever any of these cars have to offer.

Its not so much an insult to the Ferrari as a complement.

As far as comparing the Z06 to a 360 (even the Challenge Stradale) Personally I feel the Z06 would take it. And thats why I used the somewhat overstated.."KICK ITS BUTT" but hey..whose mincing words here.

The 360 Challenge Stradale
driven by a good driver will be in my opinion beaten by a Z06 with a few of the usual mods many on this site has..(for very few dollars) Again with a good driver at the wheel.

Dustman before you get to quoting racing stats etc.. That means very little to a comparision of the Challenge Stradale
and the Z06..both of which are production cars.

BTW...like I said..I believe the Ferrari 360 to be a very fine..if not one of the most beautiful sports cars in the world and an excellent performer..

The Viper..the Porsche 911 GT2, the Corvette Z06 and the new Lamboghini Gallardo (and probably the Ford GT) just happen to outperform it even in this newest " performance iteration" that only costs an extra 40 grand over the 160?

BTW...checking the market ..the Ferrari 360 is so hot..I've often seen preowned examples going in the past for as high as a quarter of a million dollars..

Yes its a fine car..in fact its among my favorite ferraris..The markup over list is insane though.. IMHO..and so is the list..

I believe this Challenge Stradale
is a marketing ploy to stem the tide of competitors successfully erroding the " ferrari IMAGE"

A good one at that.

I hope you don't see this conversation as adversarial but rather enjoyable.

I really do admire the Ferrari 360.

I'm not worked up, I just think your statement was wrong. You apparently compared using your own words a stock viper, audi, porsche, and lambo against a Ferrari saying it was getting its butt kicked by those cars (stock or not). Now not to mince words as you say, but give please Ferrari its due. I said what I said because I do not believe (and facts support this) Ferrari is by any means getting its butt kicked by audi, porsche, viper, or lambos where it counts - on the race track. I stand by my statements as you apparently stand by yours.

BTW: my name is Dustin and I thought it rude to refer to me by my handle when in nearly every post I use my real name.

Hey I love this site - adversarial or not, we're here to make it better as users and to post comments such as these to express our views on any given subject - even if its audi/lambo/porsche/viper kicking a Ferrari 550's butt. I am rather surprised you didn't mention the Mustangs since those also race GTS class.

Dustin

The_Dustman · 09-20-2003, 10:25 PM

One more note JbsZ06 (sorry I don't know your name yet)...

I was simply defending Ferrari where I think it matters, on the track. Ferarri isn't racing the 360 against Vipers or Audis or Porsches, or Lambos on the track (to my best knowledge). Ferrari thinks (as they should) their 550 is best up against the likes of the other competitors in LeMans/GTS class. We ALL know it costs more - thats not the point. The point is you said the other cars were kicking Ferraris butt, so I jumped out and said - no no no. I believe Ferarri is a GREAT competitor to the Corvette, and records show its not audi/viper/mustang/porsche/lambo thats up there with either the 550 or the C5R.

If you want to isolate your statement to "the Viper/Audi/Porsche/Lambo" are kicking the Ferraris butt - fine back it up. I don't see how you can because where the Corvette competes - the Ferrari is the real competition. We are talking about competition right - that is one car kicking the others butt? Yes.

Still I don't see your logic, but hey if you were just joking - watch those jokes around me...hehe - Seriously, I took your statement as TOTAL seriousness, not a joke at all - esp what I quoted.

Didn't mean to ruffle feathers here - was just sticking up for BOTH the Corvettes and the Ferraris that race in the GTS class and at the same time showing their strengths where it counts vs Porsche/audi/lambo/mustang/viper. These 2 cars are king vs those, thats MY POINT.

Dustin

JBsZ06 · 09-20-2003, 10:34 PM

Forget about racing class comparisons. The Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale is a street car whose true attraction is that it imparts the FEELING of a race car...to those with the money laying around to spend 200,000 grand on a car.

Take it for what its worth Dustin.

Its not an insult to you or the car..

Its just an opinion that even Ferrari would admit to..

and that also includes the fact that the 360Challenge Stradale
is a quick fix to all the newcomers such as the 500hp Viper SRT and the Lamboghini Gallardo and GT2 that are "ON THE STREET" capable of outperforming it.

Same for the Z06 Dustin

Not an insult to the Ferrari. Just a fact that the performance bar has been raised ..

In fact depending on how you look at it..its actually a compliment to the Ferrari 360 because its sales success in the MARKETPLACE raised the eyebrows of all other sports car manufacturers..and motivated them to out do it.

Ferrari's 420 as its been called should once again even things out for many Ferrari enthusiasts.

But by then..the C6 Z06 will be out to take the performance crown yet again..

BTW..I personally believe the MB SL55 has kicked some serious butt on all the traditional sports car supercar makers..

Does that make me EVIL?

( I'm kidding of course but it sure is one hell of a monster speed machine)

JB

The_Dustman · 09-20-2003, 10:49 PM

I just thought racing counted in this discussion and thats why I even posted how the Ferrari 550 has performed against the C5R and those others. In my opinion thats where it counts. If you build a sports car as a manufacturer now a days - you might as well race it to sell it even more (just like Chevy has done with the CE 04) - ya know to show its "king" or "kick butt" status. BTW: where is the Bugatti?

I agree though that the Corvette with its new "C6R" will have some stiff competition (well maybe not from the viper

) in the LeMans or GTS class. I didn't read that article you speak of or the stats of the 360 - I was simply defending Ferrari thinking your quote was directed at all Ferraris. I think we both made good points - you with the 360 and me with the 550 vs the C5R/others.

Should be a great 04/05 with Corvette vs any new GTS cars that wish to compete against its might. I say keep it the same - I wanna see Corvette then Ferrari for the kings of the class in the next few yrs. Its nice to see a Corvette win such an event/series and gives Vette owners worldwide the pride to say "we won...again...guess who lost?...the Ferrari-Lambo-Viper-Mustang-Porsche-Mercedes-and the Audi".

Dustin