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Old 06-18-2007, 05:35 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Headers destroying front o2 sensors

I posted this on the other Vette site and the responses I got over there seem to point to me having the stock tune and running lean which is burning up the 02 sensors...what do you guys think? I am using the rear o2's in the front location with a plug converter to allow them to plug into the front o2 harness.

I have long tube headers on my 02 Z and immediately after putting on the headers I was getting the 1133 and 1153 codes.

P1133 Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) Insufficient Switching Bank 1 Sensor 1
P1153 Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) Insufficient Switching Bank 2 Sensor 1

I changed the o2 sensors to new Bosch units about 6 months ago, less than 2000 miles, and I am getting the 1133 and 1153 codes again. Does anyone else go through front o2 sensors this fast or is it just me? The only mods to the engine are the long tubes w/o cats and a Stinger intake.

This is really starting to frustrate me and I am seriously thinking if this is normal that I am going to have to put the stock exhaust back on. The car's acceleration is really "choppy" and not very smooth when these codes are occurring.

Ed
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Old 06-18-2007, 06:06 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
This is really starting to frustrate me and I am seriously thinking if this is normal that I am going to have to put the stock exhaust back on. The car's acceleration is really "choppy" and not very smooth when these codes are occurring.
Very strange. I have an 02 and my first two mods were LG long tubes and a Stinger intake. I had no such problems as you've described. In fact I never set a code due to those mods.

When you mention the car's acceleration is rough and choppy, is it possible you have the front two sensors reversed? As you look at the sensors from underneath the car, the left sensors goes to the right side harness and vise versa. This is a common problem and is most identified with the "running rough" syndrome.
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Old 06-18-2007, 06:08 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Over 100K miles with headers and the OEM 02 sensors and no trouble to report. I have had two different aftermarket cams in the engine during that time span.
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Old 06-18-2007, 06:33 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jub jub
Very strange. I have an 02 and my first two mods were LG long tubes and a Stinger intake. I had no such problems as you've described. In fact I never set a code due to those mods.

When you mention the car's acceleration is rough and choppy, is it possible you have the front two sensors reversed? As you look at the sensors from underneath the car, the left sensors goes to the right side harness and vise versa. This is a common problem and is most identified with the "running rough" syndrome.
The sensors are definately not reversed.
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Old 06-18-2007, 07:30 AM   #5 (permalink)
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What kind of headers?
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Old 06-18-2007, 07:34 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I have had headers on 3 different Z's and never had a problem.

Maybe you need to retune...
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Old 06-18-2007, 07:39 AM   #7 (permalink)
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What kind of headers?
LG Street
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Old 06-18-2007, 07:41 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paxton50
LG Street
Ivo brought up a good point. Do you have a custom tune?
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Old 06-18-2007, 08:06 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I have the earlier LG LT headers setup. The front sensors are O2 simulators and my system only uses the rear sensor point. Maybe O2 sims would helo with you problem. The addition of a little Thermo Tec heat wrap will help protect also.
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Old 06-18-2007, 08:43 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jub jub
Ivo brought up a good point. Do you have a custom tune?
I have the stock tune.
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Old 06-18-2007, 08:45 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by panzer
I have the earlier LG LT headers setup. The front sensors are O2 simulators and my system only uses the rear sensor point. Maybe O2 sims would helo with you problem. The addition of a little Thermo Tec heat wrap will help protect also.
Are you sure you have the o2 sims on the front and not the rear. I would think that your car would not run correctly with the sims on the front since those are the o2's the ECU uses to adjust the AFR.
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Old 06-18-2007, 09:31 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I think panzer meant it the other way around.

Now, back to your problem. Barring any electrical problems, the only thing I can think of that would give you that trouble code would be if you had an exhaust leak, and of course it would have to be on both sides which is highly suspect. But that is the only thing I would know of to check. I would check all the mechanical connections where the headers attach to the head and also the AIR connections, any possible place where air might get sucked in.

I would see if you could find someone to connect a scanner to your car and monitor the switching of the O2s and see if they are in fact being lazy.

Here is an excerpt from an LS1 doc on the O2s just a FYI on how they work.

Quote:
When the sensor is cold, it produces either no voltage,
or an unusable, slowly changing one. Also when cold,
its internal electrical resistance is extremely high -
many million ohms. The PCM always supplies a
steady 450 millivolt, very low current bias voltage to
the oxygen sensor circuit. When the sensor is cold and
not producing any voltage, the PCM detects only this
steady bias voltage. As the sensor begins heating, its
internal resistance decreases and it begins producing
a rapidly changing voltage that will overshadow the
PCM's supplied steady bias voltage. When the PCM
detects the changing voltage, it knows the oxygen
sensor is hot and its output voltage can be used for
fine-tuning the fuel injector pulse width. The PCM
monitors the oxygen sensor's changing voltage for
going above and below a mid-range voltage band
(approximately 300 - 600 millivolts), to help decide
when to operate in the closed-loop mode.
When the fuel system is correctly operating in the
closed-loop mode, the oxygen sensor voltage output is
rapidly changing several times per second, fluctuating
from approximately 100mV (high oxygen content -
lean mixture) to 900mV (low oxygen content - rich
mixture). The PCM monitors the changing voltage, and
decides the needed fuel mixture correction.
Also, a low voltage from the PCM might account for the low switching activity so check connections, etc.
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Old 06-18-2007, 10:01 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I just thought of something else. Contamination on the sensors will cause the codes you mention. This can be caused by leaded fuel, anti-seize on the element or oil burning issues with the engine. The later has a high percentage for probability.
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Old 06-18-2007, 10:04 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paxton50
Are you sure you have the o2 sims on the front and not the rear. I would think that your car would not run correctly with the sims on the front since those are the o2's the ECU uses to adjust the AFR.
You are right, good catch they are the other way around :blush:
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Old 06-18-2007, 02:29 PM   #15 (permalink)
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You most likely need a tune or just get someone to delete the rear O2 sensors with tuning software. My Trans AM went through 3 pairs of O2 sensors during the weekend of the header installation. The crew at MTI finally deleted the sensors with tuning software and no issues since. The running rough symptom is due to the O2 sensors fouling...HTH.
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