I'm planning to purchase my first C5 hardtop this year, so obviously you know I'm ready for the real experience. I've been driving highly modified Supras for a while, but am ready for the well rounded overall package that the C5 represents. Nothing but a hardtop will do for me, as I'm a bonafide performance junkie, and having the lightest and stiffest C5 possible means everything.
However, I am not too sure about whether or not to buy a 2002 Z06 or a 99-00 FRC. I want to control depreciation as best as I can, and my thought process is something like this: Should I buy the newest/best stock Z06 I can afford, or should I consider older FRCs and then mod them to get the level of performance I want? I was budgeting about $30k to spend, which would only barely afford a high mileage 01 Z06 for now, so I would need to wait a bit to make the Z06 dream come true. On the other hand, I could handily afford a 99-00 FRC, and then gradually make up the performance difference with mods.
Mods I'd consider pretty quickly:
B&M Ripper
CAGS defeat
Column lock bypass
Halltech TRAP
Z06 Ti exhaust
LGM long tube headers
Meziere electric water pump
3.90 or 4.10 gears
Heads/cam would come a bit later down the road, and probably Z06 sized (or slightly larger) wheels/tires. However, if I bought a stock Z06 (2002 model) I'd be aiming to keep the car relatively stock (intake, B&M, CAGS defeat, column lock bypass only for starters).
What would you recommend and why? Is the Z06 worth the $10k stretch and the extra time required to save up, or would I get 90% of what I'm looking for with the FRC?
I should mention that I have yet to drive a Z06, but have spent some time in a 2000 FRC (on track...road course lapping) and was very impressed with that car. I am really looking forward to buying one, but don't want to have any regrets. Thanks very much in advance for your replies.
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Steve Theodore
1994 Supra T hardtop 6 speed
2003 Lexus IS300 5 speed
Could you please elaborate why? Do you mean that I'd essentially spend a lot more money trying to make it a Z in the long run?
I guess I should just say "is it worth waiting 6 months to a year to get the Z?" since I plan to pay cash. I'll pretty much miss the entire driving season for 2004 if I decide to get the Z06, but will do that if it's worthwhile. I will only have an SUV as a daily driver in the meanwhile...so withdrawal symptoms are going to be pretty heavy!
I had a 99 before the Z. I would also vote for the Z. I think the prices on the Z are really attractive right now. I would not be surprised to see them pick up a little when the C6 comes out and the dealers run out of the current model.
I had a new 99 FRC prior to my 02 Z, which is my 9th Corvette. IMOP, my 99 was 90% of my 02. In many ways the same car. The difference in acceleration is mainly the 50 more hp and to a lesser extent, gearing. Both are addressable in the FRC. A good heads cam package can gain the HP difference and 3.73 will fix the gearing difference. Handling improvements included changes to the springs, shocks, bars and tires. Recent magazine tests show most of the improvement is in the tires. The problem I see is in the $$$$. Assuming a tuner does the work, heads cam package $4k,;add $1.5k for the gear swap; wheels & tires another $2k. We need to really add in a clutch swap as the pre Z clutch would handle the addtional power, if you us it hard. (+$1k)I'm getting $8~9k to bring a FRC to 99% of the Z. All of this money invested adds almost nothing to the cars resale value. If fact, a modified car is generally worth less than a clean low mile stock one. What is the price difference between a clean low mile 99 or 02 FRC and a like 01 Z?
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Originally posted by Steve Theodore Could you please elaborate why? Do you mean that I'd essentially spend a lot more money trying to make it a Z in the long run?
Sure.
I started out with the simple stuff. Intake and exhaust. Got it breating better and running stronger. Got it down in the high 12's in the 1/4. Added 18" wheels with non runflats and Z06 springs and swaybars with bilstein shocks. Handled like a dream. I still wanted more power and was considering a heads/cam package and some LT headers. I also needed a heavier clutch to take the power. I also would have liked the m12 tranny. At this point I had spent a few thousand dollars and was not even close. It was going to cost me over $5K more to do the heads/cam, tranny etc and bring it all up to Z06 spec.
Even with this I still would not have a Z.
The Z06 is a complete package. It is not just a corvette with 50 extra horses.
OK, I see what you all are saying...and I definitely see the merits. One thing though:
By doing the bolt-ons, particularly a stage 2 heads/cam, LT headers, and 3.90 or 4.10 gearing...wouldn't I actually be leapfrogging MN12/LS6 combination? What I mean is...wouldn't I also have to consider at least aggressive bolt ons to match that level of performance if starting with a Z06? If getting the most performance for my $30k is my ultimate goal, does it still make sense to place the Z06 on the top rung?
I definitely see the merits of starting with the best foundation possible, and also having a newer car...so I'm not trying to argue the FRC card...just want to make sure that I'm presenting my case accordingly. I think I'll be a winner either way and can't wait!
Judging from your plans, and your funds - get the FRC.
Listen carefully. I was in the SAME EXACT situation as you.
I KNEW I was going to mod my car. A Z06 is a great car, but it is not worth the extra $$ if you're just gonna replace those parts. Kinda like buying a Camaro SS and then buying a new hood, wheels, suspension, etc.. Waste of $$. The Z06 is the same exact car as an FRC, just with added stuff. If you're going to add stuff yourself, why bother with a Z?
I have a 99 FRC with about 23k miles now, and I'm not over $30k total spent. It has heads/cam/longtubes/ls6 intake all the bolt ons and puts down about 410rwhp (mild cam). Mallet wheels and bilstein shocks (though I probably going to swap out the whole suspension for 04 spec Z06 stuff). 3.90 DTE rear, Cartek clutch, you name it. I figure I'm at about 28-29k spent total including car now.
Buy a cheap FRC, mod it to your liking, reap the benefits.
The people who are suggesting to buy a Z06 apparently didn't read your post. 30k will barely buy you an 01 Z06 if you're lucky, whereas low 20s will buy you a nice FRC. You can get higher mileage FRCs for under 20k (high teens). You want to mod it, so you'll have the $$ to start.
It's fine to buy a Z06 and mod it, if you've got too much $$. You don't, neither do I.
I hate those rear brake ducts and badging anyway. Plus I like Mallet 396 wheels way better than Z06 wheels.
You definitely know where I'm coming from...and I appreciate your reply. I will give this some careful thought, but since I love to mod, I do agree that it's easier on the wallet to start with a lower priced car (assuming it has the basic ingredients I want). The FRC dream is easily achieved financially too.
Thanks again to all for their replies...I appreciate hearing different opinions when it comes to this kind of stuff.
Steve, nice to see you make it over from Supraforums!
If you have $30k to spend now, I would have to say save up and get a well priced 02 Z. The Z is more than a few more ponies as you already know. The handling in the Z is better, it's faster and it's got (Dare I say) better resale value. For the argument that you can get an FRC cheaper and mod it....well you can also sell your LS6/Z06 parts for more $$$ as well to eat up some of the initial mod costs. I'm selling my wheels, tires, exhaust, etc...and it's helping me with the new upgrades.
In the end, you mod less and started with a better base car. If there's anything that I found fit ME best over the years of buying cars, it was....get the top of the line model everytime.
Steve, i will throw my .02 cents in on the Z or FRC. If you can swing a Z, go for it. After you mod a FRC, the bucks you have in that will go down the drain when sale time comes. With a Z, the big hit has already been taken in depreciation. If it were me, i would drive SUV for a while longer and buy a real beast. Good luck on your decision and test drive a Z and you will know why.
No problem Steve. Just a side note, my analogy with the Camaro SS was because that person was me. I bought a 2000 SS 3 years ago new, and I proceeded to (over a few years) remove everything but the hood and the spoiler. New wheels/tires, all suspension parts, exhaust, you name it.
Huge waste of money, I've ALWAYS regretted it. Granted, the car was sweet as hell, but the amount of money I spent was sickening.
That's why I knew I wouldn't get a Z06, it was just a big waste of $$. Get the cheap FRC, and upgrade to better than Z06 specs (suspension/power/etc).
There's a few things that I see as an advantage over an FRC too. They have tire pressure monitors, no rear brake ducts (if you think they're ugly like me) and an M6 tranny. M6 + 3.90s == slightly better than M12 (no huge drop in 4th gear), M6 + 4.10s == better than M12. Plus mine came with a 12 disc changer (don't think that was an option on the Z06) and a cover over the rear trunk well (not a big deal, but it's nice to not have things bounce around). Some big things and some small things.
You just have to consider HOW much you're going to mod the car. If you just want to do bolt-ons and get 380-390rwhp out of a Z06, and you're happy with factory Z06 suspension, you like the factory wheels, etc etc, then a Z06 is probably a good choice. If you want 425+rwhp heads/cam packages, coilovers, aftermarket wheels etc, get an FRC.
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