Autocrossing upgrade - Rear discs - Adapting to a solid axle rear end on a Syclone
I am almost done swapping the front calipers and rotors off a Z06 to my GMC Syclone. I was amazed at the ease this conversion was. I just needed to build a caliper bracket.
Since I am setting this truck up for autocrossing I am also looking to add some rear discs Some people I have read have used late model Camaro parts but I have not seen any picutres of the setup. The camaro disc swap may be easier since we both have live axles but I would be curious to see if I could adapt the corvette rear brakes.
I guess I would be looking at whether or not the axle flange would bolt up, or at least what it would take for it to bolt up. I don't mind milling a new caliper bracket but I know it is not the whole battle. I know I am looking at adapting the parking brakes and the cable along with the master cylinder. I am not too sure about the ABS either. Since this is the first truck to ever have ABS it is pretty antiquated so I am not sure I want to keep it.
Overall I don't want to have a mismatched brake system. I know Baer makes a rear kit for my truck, but I am the type of person to build things myself and save a few bucks. I would rather have the Corvette in front and back since the master cylinder would be appropriate.
Do you guys have any insight as to what I would be looking at to make this happen? Maybe a diagram of the the parts I would need. Thanks
Originally posted by DJWorm I would put the disc's back on the Z06 and use the Z06 to AutoX with.
It's a much better platform than a Cyclone.
I don't want to be stepping on anyones toes here but where do you come off saying that???
How is a Syclone not a platform for autocrossing? How is my buddy only less than a second off the times of Z06's? We both ditched the tortion bar setup in front in favor for tubular chromoly upper and lower control arms, coilovers with Bilstein digressive shocks, and Hyperco Springs. Hopefully before the season starts I will have my brakes along with my fourlink with the watts centering link. I know my stuff, please don't jump to conclusions..
I wouldn't mind having a z06 but the budget just isn't there.
No my truck is not the most optimum foudation for autocrossing but I think it does damn well for what it is. It weighs about 3200 lbs.. Hell, I am out there just to have fun like you guys.
Anyway, I have researched the Camaro rear discs and I have heard that the bottom two caliper bolts will bolt up but the upper has to be modified. I guess my question is how similar the rear brakes on the camaro as to the vette. Unfortunately I haven't seen any pictures that illustrate this nor have I read anything. Like I said, I would rather have the corvette rear discs because of the proper master cylinder.
I'm sure DJWorm didn't mean anything bad by his post. He's one of the most knowledgeable racing guy on this site.
I'm guessing he assumed, just like I did when I read your first post, that you had a Z06 and that you moved its calipers and rotors to the Syclone. But now, knowing you do not own a Z, it makes the suggestion a bit silly
I'm impressed that you were able to keep within 1 second of a Z in autocross! Hopefully the Z's (quite capable) breaking system will help you improve your times even more.
I DID NOT say the Syclone was NOT an AUTOX platform.
What I DID say was the Z06 is a much better platform. It is in fact probably a better platform off the showroom floor.
AND you are probably right that you may be within a second of a Z06 times but there are 3 salient points
1. A second in AutoX is an eternity.
2. The amount of preperation you have put into the Syclone will probably put it in a fully Prepared or Modified Class and you were probably comparing those times to Z06's run in Super Stock classes with minimal preperation, basically stock.
3. To compare apples to apples you need to compare the amount of preperation you have done to a Z06 with the same amount of preperation you have done to the Syclone. With the amount of suspension and brake upgrades you have done a comparable Z06 might be similar to a C5R. I think if you then compare times it will be more than a second.
But do not get me wrong. I congradulate you in trying to improve the Syclone. I have no problem with that. In fact some of my best friends are "C Prepared" Nuts. And I say that with kindness. They basically start with a bunch of tubing and a pile of nuts and bolts and build a car rather than modify one. I have deep respect for that.
I guess my point was that the time, effort and cost might be better spent, in the long run.
BTW if you are using Z06 brakes on the Syclone, there are some relatively cheap upgrades you can use to increase their performance even further. I would be happy to share those with you if your interested.
I appreciate the kind words. We are all car enthusiasts anyway, just at a different level.
Ever since my buddy took me out autocrossing I have had a smile on my face. I have never been thrown around in a car so bad in my life. It was just a great feeling. That was about a year ago. Now I am competing along side him and we are just having the best time. People who have been racing for years always seem to question what makes these trucks so quick.
It has been a battle just to get this truck where it is. There are very few vendors that make products for these trucks. There were less than 9000 Syclones and Typhoons built so no one wants to spend the time to make something. Supply and demand at its finest.
I figured I would have plenty of time to add some new parts over the winter but a bunch of little things have pushed me back. Here it is nearly spring and I havent done half of what I wanted. It was a nightmare to get my front suspension built. The vendor I went through took nearly six months to get my front coilovers shipped to me. It wasn't until after I disputed the charges on my credit card did I finially see my whole shippment.
I don't know what class my truck is in but I'm sure it is beyond the modified class. The season opens april 17 at the local airport so I am kind of in a mad dash to make things happen. I was wanting to get a second set of wheels and tires but I don't want to do that because I am not sure what the new brakes are going to do to my offset.
As for the rear brakes, I have been looking and that there isn't much difference in the design between the vette and camaro brakes. Both have the drum parking brake but they still have a different part number. I finially found a picture of the rear brakes. It looks like the rear caliper bolts to a spindle where the cv joint goes through. Doesn't look like a straight swap, but that doesn't surprise me. Is there any significant difference in the rear brakes of a ls1 camaro or a vette? Maybe you guys would know.
I am amazed at how difficult it is to find hardened steel in my town. There are about four steel houses in town but no one has 4140 steel or anything with strength. I don't feel comfortable using anything but the good stuff when it comes to brakes.
DJWorm... you were talking about some cheap upgrades with the stock brakes. I would like to know more. I know to use good brake fluid bed and season the pads and rotors but I am always up for learning more.
Use the Camaro brakes on the rear, The calipers are almost Identical. As far as bolting it to the axle, I would have the axle housing ends changed to camaro style.
Here are the basic upgrades that should be done to Corvette/Camaro brakes for AutoX in the class that you will be competing. Keeping in mind that the rotors are the weakest link.
1. Have the rotors Crogenically treated and slotted.
2. Do NOT have the rotors cross drilled.
3. Best AutoX pads are KFP GOLD. These have ceramic backing plates
built in.
4. Use either Motul 600 or AP600 Racing Brake Fluid
5. Install Speedbleeders
6. Install either Doug Rippier Stainless Steel Caliper Pistons or have
VB&P rebuild the calipers with Titanium tipped and vented caliper
pistons. The stock Aluminum pistons conduct too much heat.
7. Install Goodridge Stainless Steel Brake Lines with -AN connectors.
These lines are teflon lined and are 3AN.
8. Install additional cooling ducts to the front calipers and center hub.
9. Consider installing a Seine Systems MPC "mister"
With these upgrades the stock system will perform close to a big brake system.
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I see you are from Sparks, NV. I assume you are running with the RenoSCCA. I think the Syclone is a great truck and does quite well in its class. In fact a guy at our office has one. I'll try to get him out there this year to give you some competition.
Last year it looks like a Syclone came to two of our events and did quite well in the street tire class. I assume that was you. I do need to comment on how close the times were to the Z06s. Other than for one C5 Corvette which you did get within a second of all other C5 and Z06 you were within 4 to 7 seconds between the two events
Sounds like you have done a lot to your truck and I hope to see you there this year. Our seasons starts April 17 with a Autocross school and April 18 with our first event.
I only know of four Syclones in Reno. My buddy Adam, Myself, his friend about a block away, and one owned by a body shop.
This is going to be my first year in autocross, last season I was riding shotgun. Adam is the person you see running. I think he got out there three times last year. One weekend there were two syclones but I didn't make it to that rally. He told me he was within a second of a z06.. Didn't question it but I guess it is kind of true.
No worries about the rear corvette brakes. I went ahead with the 98+ camaro rear brakes. It is pretty much bolt on. All I have to do is cut the upper bracket off the axle flange. Three of the four bolt holes are there and they line up properly. I just need to drill out the bracket for the fourth hole. The parking brake cable needs a little modification but in all it is nothing too terrible.
Thanks for the tips DJWorm. For now I am going to bolt up what I have. The simple things I will be able to do but swapping pistons are going to be down the road. I just don't have the time right now. As you guys know our cars are never complete. It has been apart as much as it has been on the road.
I have my appointment for an alignment on the 14th and hope I can piece it all together by race day. With or without my truck I will definately be there. Its not too often I get a weekend off so I am going to make the best of it. Hope to see you there!
I'm waiting to complete my rear suspension and upgrade to the proper tires and wheels for road racing.
My Syclone currently weights 3290 lbs. Ride height is lowered by 2 inches. Runs circles around my Mitsubishi Evo 7 RS w/SCCA Rollcage, racing seats, electronic center diff.
Looking forward to eclipsing times run by the top Z06 drivers here.
Come to think of it. Even with the extensive modifications to an already very capable automobile right out of the box, my Syclone is competitive with the Z06 aside from aerodynamics. As a matter of fact, the cost of the truck plus modifications totals less than the cost of a brand new Z06.
I built this truck mostly for sh**ts and giggles...to break stereotypes and to give corvette drivers, fits of rage!
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