Hotchkis vs stock '01 sway bars

[itry2hide]

I participate in about 6-8 hpde events per year. I'm in the process of installing a cam and headers, plus just purchased a set of track wheels/tires.

There is a questions here

Are the hotchkis sway bars better than the stock Z06 setup?
A little?
A lot?
loads better?

tbyrne is running a group purchase so I'm figuring I might as well do the update if it's worth it.

[DJWorm]

Hotchkis makes a quality product.

However the Hotchkis Bar is only slightly larger and stiffer than the stock Z06 bar and is almost imperceptable to all but the most experienced drivers.

It may offer a slight tuning advantage in SCCA National Tour or Pro Solo AutoX.

I think a better choice for the Z06 on the track is the Chevy T1 bar.
It will offer a harsher street ride but the improvement on the track is quite noticable

[No Doubt]

Stock springs then stock bar. If T1 springs then T1 bars. Same for dampers. (shocks) Aftermarket shocks offer tuning capability and are superior if properly set up.

Bigger is not always better. It also depends on the tires.

[Mark Olson]

Just my two cents: I have the stock bars still on my Z, on the other hand, Hotchkis did up some bars for the Audi allroads that made all the difference in the world in that car. As for Solo work some times making the car stiffer dosent realy help. and only the front bar can be change in Super Stock anyway. But then in ASP you can change both and also run wider tires to take advantage of the stiffer roll the H bars will give.

[JakeL]

The Hotchkis bars are a pretty subtle change over the Z06 bars. It's noticable, but subtle.

I've been from Z51 to Z06, to T1 and Hotchkis, and the Hotchkis are the ones that are on my car now, to stay. If I need a bit more bar at some point, I might put a T1 bar on the rear, but that's about it.

here's my brief writeup/impressions:

http://www.jakelatham.com/c5/misc/faq.shtml#2-3

-Jake

[-X-]

Originally Posted by JakeL

http://www.jakelatham.com/c5/misc/faq.shtml#2-3

Nice FAQ, thanks.

[Cash]

I have Hotchkis and I woudl agree with all the above that they are just a notch stiffer.

Sounds like T1 or PFADT are the way to go.

[DJWorm]

To further expound on this

The OEM C5 Z06 front sway bar is:
30mm OD, 4.5mm wall thickness

The Hotchkis is:
31.75mm OD and 4 mm wall thickness

HEY, we're talking MM's here!
The Hotchkis is 1.75 mm larger in OD and 0.5 mm thinner in wall thickness.
The Hotchkis was engineered to upgrade a standard C5.

There is therfore hardly any difference between the Hotchkis and OEM Z06 bar in NET Anti-roll stability.

The Hotchkis may be slighly more progrssive in its Transition characteristics due to its thinner wall thickness, which IS an advantage in AutoX. Think Slalom.

However for high speed track where transition is NOT a big factor and Yaw rate IS; the T1 bar offers a better selection over both the OEM and Hotchkis.
Remember the original question was concerning HPDE high speed track work. It is very harsh on the street if used in a dual use car.

Til now there has been a need to bridge the gap between the OEM/Hotchkis sway bar rates and the T1 bar. Pfadt Engineering may have filled that need with it's new "Pfatty" bar which is larger than it's original. The new bar is stiffer than the OEM and fills the complete range to T1 stiffness, maybe exceeding it in it's last adjustment. I do not have Stats at this moment but do have many favorable reports. I would also recommend using Pfadt's Delrin Mounting Bushings when installing this bar. It is also adjustable with different position points AND has adjustable end links which offers mirad possibilities. Skid pad testing and driver input will be required for proper set up and track/course application.

For AutoX competition the original Pfadt bar now named the "Street Bar" would be applicable. It looks like it fills the gap between the Z06 bar and half way to the T1 bar. This taken from their online tech Specs.

For informational purposes only, following is a link to a graphic comparison of the bars discussed.
1.Although the Hotchkis are NOT represented they can be assumed to be close to the C5 Z06 bars.
2. The Rear T1 Bar is shown in a range sorresponding to it's adjustable end links.
3. The Front T1 bar is NOT shown in a range but should be. Consider it to be about the same range as the Rear T1 Bar.
4. The graph shows that the Rear "Pfatty" bar can be adjusted stiffer than the front. Be aware this is sometimes a dangerous condition for an unexperienced driver. Our rule of thumb is that the rear Sway Bar "Rate of Stiffness" should NEVER be more than the Front and ALWAYS either equal to or less than the front.

http://www.pfadtracing.com/t_popup_i...=swaygraph.JPG

[-X-]

Hi DJWorm,

I'm new to the site and am in the process of acquiring an '02 Z06, so I have been reading up a lot and have come across many threads where you hand out brilliant information, thanks.

I won't be tracking mine, but it has a 3.90 diff and should be around 410-420 rwhp with the mods the current owner has done, so I'm concerned with minimizing wheel hop (if any exists) off the line. I was going to go with a Hotchkis RSB instead of a T1, but this Pfatty sounds like a better alternative (if it can remain relatively supple on the street) than the Hotchkis. Would it be ok to keep the stock Z06 FSB if the Pfatty is utilized at a stiffness about halfway between the stock and the T1?

A bit offtopic, but I was looking for JRZ and Moton DA dampers online and don't see anyone selling these. I'd love the Penske DAs, but it's a bit out of my budget at the moment, but I need to replace the stock 2002 dampers and was thinking about QA1s instead of the 2004 GMs.

Thanks for any advice and sorry if this is considered a hijack, didn't really think it was necessary to create yet another thread on the matter.

[-X-]

After looking at that graph and further digesting the info you gave about keeping the stiffness of both sways equal or less stiff in the rear, I think that answered my question about keeping my stock FSB as a big NO.

Looks like the Pfadt street version would be a better choice, due to the tunability factor. Then again, for what the QA1s + Pfadt streets cost, I could get Penske DAs for not much more, then throw on a DTE diff girdle and keep the stock Z06 RSB.

[ZO6 AL-X]

Stock springs with stock, or near stock, height: I vote for Z06 bars or T1.

[DJWorm]

For street applications the oriiginal Pfadt bar might be more appropriate...what they call their Street Bar rather than the Pfatty bar.

IF you have wheel hop it is NOT a function of the sway bars therefore sway bars can not tune out wheel hop. Wheel Hop is simply a function of rear shock rebound.

I would first try '04 Z06 shocks first for a street application. If your HP & Torque still overpower them and produce wheel hop then Penske DA's are in order.

JRZ & Moton DA's are slightly more expensive than the Penske DA's...like a grand more. Besides JRZ and Moton while comparative in performance are built in Belgium & the Netherlands, respectively and therefore sometimes have a parts supply problem, despite having American subsiduaries. Penske's are American built and the support is fantastic. Mallett Cars Ltd. have the best installation for the Penske's

QA-1'a are older technology and are good only for drag cars. I do not recommend them and I won't use them on my car. Although touted as adjustable I do not think the Rebound & Bump are independantly adjustable....which makes them useless in my mind.

[-X-]

I spoke with the current owner and asked about wheel-hopping. He said that once he installed stickier tires (Toyo Proxes), it alleviated much of the wheel-hopping, except for launching on very grippy surfaces, where it still exists somewhat. I guess I'll go with '04 Z06 dampers first and see how they work.

I understand about wheel-hopping being strictly a function of the dampers (from reading your other excellent posts), but I also read that once more traction is acquired (i.e., wheel-hopping eliminated), the rear sway bar stiffness should be increased and the diff should be hardened (girdle) to keep rear-end stuff from breaking. Am I misinformed here?