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Old 01-24-2003, 07:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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torque on lug nuts

What is the torque on stock Z06 wheels
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Old 01-24-2003, 07:36 PM   #2 (permalink)
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100ft #'s........
Do it by alternating lugs..top/bottom/side/top/bottom/side...etc..
I would do it in 25ft # increments to be safe.
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Old 01-24-2003, 08:44 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I was told that 85 ft lbs was the number for my Fiske Fm5's. Now ya got me thinking thats wrong. Could re-torque in a flash. Temporarily confused ( Friday night and ready to crash)

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Old 01-24-2003, 09:08 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Correct torque procedure is to step torque in a 5 star pattern 30/60/90 Lb.Ft.. (This is from the Service Manual and is Mallett's recommendation)

Other racers have also told me that step torquing is a waste of time and that correct torque wrench procedure dictates that you set the final torque setting and go directly to it after hand tightening nd centering the wheel and lugs in their beveled sockets. Their reasoning is that there is so much variation between torque wrenches and the numbers that cheaper ones put out, that these wrenches can not tell the difference between Ft/Lb +/- 30. Unless the say, you have a very expensive and accurate one that has been calibrated. in fact we ran a test at the track and found that out of 5 wrenches there was in fact a +/- 50 Ft Lb difference!!!!! Even among the same brand!!!!!. Be sure and calibrate those wrenches!!!!

I still step torque mine.

However I found that under track conditions and the heat generated, especially by the front brakes that the lugs were actually too loose when the wheel is hot. I have found that step torqueing 30/60/90/110 when cold (ambient temp.) will keep the nuts tight under track use and does not over stretch the bolts. Just to be safe I have recently changed the studs to ARP's with a higher tensile strength.

I have just purchased all new Titanium wheel studs and lug nuts ......so I am now writing a new chapter. I will post later in the season as I become more experienced with the Titanium set up.

These Titanium studs and nuts save significant weight .....of the wheel hub and my wallet!!!!!!

Last edited by DJWorm : 01-24-2003 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 01-27-2003, 07:40 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Correct. 90 is the "cold load spec". But 100 will not over torque the studs to cause a problem. I re-torque minutes after I get off the track and have also noticed the how the hot load torque is less (~10 foot pounds less). The explanation is rather simple. The lugs get direct heat transfer from the hub/rotors result in very slight lengthening of the lug, and hence a reduction of the applied torque. OK to re-torque HOT and take the slight cold over-torque. Also OK to just pop it up to 100 cold if you know you are going to race. I have seen DE clubs tech inspections go for 100 cold. There is sufficient margin in the lug yield stress to allow for this.

The star, or as mechanical engineers call it- "diametrically opposed torque pattern" ensure even application of fit and consistent torque stud to stud. Correct.

The phenomena of "preloading" bolt torque is not unique to lugs. On nuclear reactor pressure vessel heads, they deliberately preheat the bolts to extreme temperatures as they torque the vessel heads down. Failure to consider temperature variation will result in a reactor at normal operating temperature with loose bolts. Not good.

DJ-- I need info on where you got the studs. Part numbers?. I am upgrading!!! I was on the track Saturday at Roebling when an M3 had a lug sheer and lost a front wheel in turn 2!!! Took 45 minutes to clear the mess. Cost is not an object, I want to upgrade to highest tensile strength lugs money can buy. Although pure titanium does spook me a little as my memory recalls, it is more susceptible to fatigue stress failure (cycles of stress below yield stress) than conventional high grade steel. Hopefully, they are made of an alloy of titanium with better fatigue properties and high tensile strength to provide greater margin than OEM.

The main reason I want more margin is not OEM distrust, or the M3 spook, but that I am considering the addition of a 3/16 " spacer to allow for track clearance with my 335s in the rear. No street rubbing, but polish the fender well a little at the tire limits.


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Old 01-28-2003, 07:44 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Doug Rippie has both the longer Chevy wheel studs;

1/2" LONGER ZINC PLATED, Part# 70-010 $22.95/10

and the ARP 190,000# PSI tensile strength:

1" LONGER CHROMEMOLY Part#70-015 $42.95/10

www.dougrippie.com

ARP's and other studs at Seedway Engineering
www.1speedway.com

Titanium Wheel Studs and other Titanium Hardware at

www.mettec.com

Other Titanium products at

www.markwilliams.com
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Old 01-28-2003, 08:25 AM   #7 (permalink)
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SERVICE MANUAL - 2002 CORVETTE

VOLUME 1 - PAGE 3-97

Installation procedure
1. Install the tire and wheel assembly. Align the locating mark of the tire and wheel to the hub.
Important: Tighten the nuts evenly and alternately in order to avoid excessive runout.
2. Install the wheel nuts.
Tighten
Tighten the nuts in a criss/cross pattern to 100 lb ft.

90 lb ft
110 lb ft
preloading
step torque

Diametrically opposed procedure can only be used when an even number of nuts hold the wheel/tire assembly to the hub. There is no diametrically opposed position in a five lug design.

I'm not trying to anybody here. Hell, you racer guys sure know a lot more than me but...please don't "Quote" stuff from the service manual when it just isn't in there.

As far a owning/using a torque wrench that isn't calibrated...that's about the same as using a razor on your face after the wife has used it on her legs,**OUCH**. or better yet, carrying a gun on your hip with the bullets in your pocket.

OK...I'm ready...let me have it

Charlie
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Old 01-28-2003, 09:54 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Torque Wrench maintenance....

It's very important to store and maintain your torque wrench properly to keep the integrity of the calibration and lengthen the life of the torque wrench. I read this on a mechanics forum some where I can't remember where, but I'm sure someone knows more and will elaborate a little more.
KaraDog bet you didn't expect to get all these replies for such a simple question
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Old 01-28-2003, 10:14 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I borrow my buddies torque wrench to lossen head bolts up and then I use mine to tighten them (he he)
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Old 01-28-2003, 11:27 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by 22655TD
I borrow my buddies torque wrench to lossen head bolts up and then I use mine to tighten them (he he)
That little (he he) at the end meant you were kidding, right? I mean, why in the world would you use a torque wrench to loosen bolts?

Charlie
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Old 01-28-2003, 11:31 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Torque Wrench maintenance....

Quote:
Originally posted by z06nut
KaraDog bet you didn't expect to get all these replies for such a simple question
Isn't this what this place is all about? One simple little question eventually leads to the "The Meaning Of Life".

How great is all this

Charlie
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Old 01-28-2003, 11:57 AM   #12 (permalink)
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(he he) WAS a little joke.
I meant to say DON'T USE IT LIKE A PULL BAR.
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Old 02-15-2003, 03:34 PM   #13 (permalink)
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NYCHASM....

OK, I'll bite.... Folks are trying to help the guy out ...

Diametric opposition, criss/cross, and star all convey the same underlying engineering principle of proper torque application that your shade tree mechanic, attempting to torque his lugs should live by. Do you disagree with this?

Congratulations on your astute observations of geometry. I am sure your post stopped karadog dead in his tracks before he took my misguided advice, went out and drilled a 6th lug into his car so he could torque diametrically opposed. You asked for it . You got it. Let's not start a pissing contest on of all things--lug torque? That is not my intent. Charlie-- Here is beer for you if we ever hook up... I'll buy the first round and we'll have a laugh about it!

Like you said... some folks out here have raced forever (not me), other have been been mechanics who can feel torque accurately(not me), and other are degreed engineers (me) who don't need to consult a service manual to learn how to put on a wheel.

(Unrelated--- Many years ago, I once had the audacity to challenge a seasoned mechanic on his "hand torque" on my car. True to his word the SOB was dead balls accurate to 100# when I made him get the TW. That day-- I learned never to ruffle another mans lug nuts).

Not sure who wrote your manual... I sure hope it was not the guy at GM who designed the rings on an 01Z06, or the trunk lids that don't pop open on the 02... or the rotors that warp ....(perhaps, not the sharpest tools in the GM shed...) My calculations show the number at 100#. Who cares.... !!!! The service manual procedure you quote (110#) should work fine also, I have not read it in detail..... But just remember-- rotors are cracking/warping all over the place. I am NOT implying this is the root cause, but I will say that someone that does not torque wheel lugs in opposition and with consistent force could be more vulnerable to rotor warpage. I consider myself lucky that mine do not have a crack or warpage at 6K, and my 01 made it 10K. Like motor oil choices, lots of "right ways" to do it safely....

Bottom line is 100 +/- 15 is safe on a warm lug. Stepping the torque is good practice, not bad. Application of the torque should "strive for" (is that better?) -- diametric opposition.

Preloading... [Not something Joe street driver needs to be concerned with... ] Wheel lugs on the track get very hot. When a bolt gets hot it expands a little. That elongation lowers the torque applied cold, and held by the friction of the nut threads.
On a hot day at the track (down south anyway) lugs temps will burn your hand. Do I want 70# hot? No, I want 100#.

Now I could care less what the books say.... But before I track my car, I warm my lugs to about 200F and I torque to 100#. Last week I ditched the OEM 10.9 lugs and installed ARP 190kpsi lugs. I did that for several reasons, but one of them was that I examined a sheered wheel lug from a BMW M3 on the track that spun out in front of me a few weeks before on the track. It is my opinion that that lug failed due to stress induced by insufficient torque. The tech inspections that day did NOT check torque, as I had seen them do in the past. No way to know for sure what happened to that poor guy. Stronger lugs can carry more applied torque. Since I am stressing the car more than typical, I feel better about it.

FYI... The "preloading" I do results in a cool down torque of about 130-140. No big deal... (It took me over 200# to break free those nasty star bolts last week pulling the wheel bearings to replace my lugs ;-( ) On the street, I run about 100# cold.

This all said, I am not an experienced racer. For all I know they do not consider hot and cold torque. Frankly... I could care less if they do or not. I know I am doing right thing for ME based on my measurements, observations, and engineering, and my wheels are not falling off...

To each his own... torque to whatever makes you comfortable.

Be safe bro... we're all on the same team here.

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