Z06Vette.com - Corvette Z06 Forum - VIDEO: The Uh-Oh, this has GOT to be BAD video

GR8 WHITE · 09-28-2007, 12:35 PM

Ok folks, this is it. I have about HAD IT with this Corvette. Ever since that lifter took a crap, I been pretty easy on the ride. Trying to milk it until I can come home if you will.

Today as I drove 30 miles out, I got that "Uh Oh" factor when I felt the car start studdering to accelerate, as if you are doing 30 miles an hour and trying to gain speed in 6th gear. It just don't go hand in hand.

So I dropped down from 6th gear (I was doing 50+ miles an hour, maybe 60 mph) and got into 5th. Same thing, but not so evident.

The car felt exactly like when I left the shop last month all excited with the good compression test results and forgot to replace a spark plug wire. The car was sputtering, feeling as if I had the gas floored, but car was starving to go. Just like a missing spark plug wire, or one that was not connected. or as experts would think , running with only 7 cylinders.

I pulled over at earliest location and checked my wires.

NOTHING.

But when I shut car off, I heard what seemed to be something leaking and falling on hot pipes, sizzling. But I couldnt spot any drips or saturation and it only lasted a few seconds. When I started it back up, I noticed a light knocking or tapping. (1:31 - 1:40) Obviously from the engine bay. When you watch the video you will slightly hear it.

Then, when I was showing a guy who was gong to follow me home to ensure I made it, I realized that my car at idle was producing what appeared to be too much condensation in the exhaust smoke. I thought it was due to moisture in air, but watch the video, and you will see, it progressively got worse. (0:30)

Then the "Dude, rev my engine up hard and let me see what it does".

A nice 12 - 15 foot cloud of what appears to be burning oil. My exhaust looks like a damn oil flame thrower!!!

So, I limped it home, and then handed off the small video camera so my buddy could video the rear as I drove.

So, with all that, folks, you know my situation...

Started out as oil consumption.
We thought rings, valve stems, seals, or seats.
Now my car is running terrible, feels like it is sputtering, like lost compression and spitting out oil like it is expelling industrial strength neighborhood insect repellant.

Please experts, talk to me.....

I spoke to Mike at ACP and told him as politely as possible without getting wrapped up in my emotions of spending so much money to get it fixed and having THIS happen. So, my next step in this madness is to get my car BACK to ACP ASAP!!! And, this time, I am not paying a dime. (Unless I need parts).

Even then, what the hell could I possibly need now?

Please review the 2:30 minute video....

Please, best guesses?

Glenn
http://media.putfile.com/27-SEP-2007...ve-Oil-Burning

**MikesZ06** · 09-28-2007, 12:57 PM

Well, the most obvious problem is that you're burning oil like a madman. But you knew that already.

What does your oil pressure gauge read at idle?

Mike

**jub jub** · 09-28-2007, 01:18 PM

Well, my take is your burning oil! Not like a "madman" mind you, more like a mildly insane person.

Are you getting any O2 sensor codes?

The black sooty stuff blowing out your pipes is condensation mixed with soot from the exhaust. I get that on humid days as well and is no cause for concern but your oil burning is.

**Kens06** · 09-28-2007, 01:27 PM

Damn Glenn??
You have to find the oil comsumption problem!!
The studdering is a plug or two that got loaded up while you dogged it!!

Something ain't right and it's on both sides which points to the PCV system!!
Somehow large quantities of oil are getting into the intake, that's where the even distribution comes from!!

I'm gonna throw a wild card out here!
Have you tried driving the car without the oil filler cap on??
Put a sock over the hole.........
Lots of people are putting filters there to help vent the crankcase..........

I feel your pain Bro!!
Ken

Top Cog · 09-28-2007, 01:31 PM

Hey buddy, sad to watch your video. My guess is rings. All our talk about PCV, valve seals and such was only wishing, I think now.
Either wrong rings or installed wrong...possibly even some bbroken ones at this point. I'd think about telling ACP to forget about trying to fix this and get them to install a crate engine. Start fresh. If you were home, you could think about a fix (cause anything can be fixed) but over there you're at their mercy. Cut your losses an move on.

Let's see what some other of our Forum colleagues have to say. Pulling for you, Glenn, but this looks like a tough one to save to me.

**jub jub** · 09-28-2007, 01:39 PM

Remember back when he was showing us deep scratches in the block? Remember after it was "honed" the scratches were gone? Well, considering the amount of cylinder they had to remove to get rid of the scratches, he should have had over sized pistons and rings installed. Considering the ring gaps on a N/A engine is on the order of .0015" - .002", there isn't much room to clean up a cylinder after it's been gouged.

The proper repair was not performed. It was a "patch" and as such Glenn is now experiencing what we know as "engine builder remorse".

Sorry it happened to you Glenn because you seem like such a nice guy.

gasboy · 09-28-2007, 01:50 PM

ring gaps are around .020 to .025.thousands.a general rule of thumb was always 4 or 5 thousands per inch of bore.may be a little different on aluminum blocks,but not much.it will have to come apart any way,so you might as well get to it.sorry for all your trouble and thanks for the job you do.

GR8 WHITE · 09-28-2007, 02:05 PM

Mike, Ken, Jub, Top....

Mike at ACP asked me to bring the car in. If the cylinder walls here honed too much, and it does turn out to be pistons are too small, or rings went bad.... What do you think is best? getting a crate engine here is very expensive. This is shooting from the hip now. I mean, I spent alot of money on getting this back up to par, and if the block was honed too much, how can I prove this? Is there a way to tell the pistons are too "small" for the block now? If they tear it down, there has GOT to be some tell tale signs of misfortune on their installation part internally to the engine. At that point, maybe they will suck up the loss and at least pay me back something for my loss. You know how I been down this road once before where major mistakes were made and I was left hanging to suck it up myself..... I cant afford this again.

Ok, so we think it is most definitely surrounding rings or pistons? Would the pistons just go bad like that? or more aimed at the rings themself were to small to seal the pistons to the cylinder walls? I will get a oil pressure check in morning. All this has got me beat down.

If the engine is not salvageable in your professional expert opinions, do you think it is best to sell the car "AS IS" and take a loss in sell price so someone else can build it up or start all over and get it up and running again through qualified stateside mechanics. Surely, another $6000 or more price tag. Jeees, this is KILLING ME!!!! It would be cheaper to find someone in the chop shop business and make it "disappear".

Again, when I was driving it, it felt as if I lost power. Would faulty springs have anything to do with this? Also, I do hear a slight knocking or tapping. Could that be the piston tapping the cylinder walls as it goes up and down? It is rhytmic. Steady, blunt, and timed. Not erratic or unpredictable. I am determined to get it to ACP just to see what the hell it is!

ps.... I am getting NO CODES whatsoever. None. I been checking. Not even 02 codes. As clogged as they GOT to be!

Mark Olson · 09-28-2007, 05:31 PM

Glenn,

To me it looks like a valve guide seal (seals) and pumping that much liquid oil out the tail pipe would have me (for what is worth) thinking an exhause valve seal. I don't think that it would run as good as it is in the video if it were rings, and pistons to small would have made it self knowen right away, after rebuild...

Lets hope for the best.

Mark.

**MikesZ06** · 09-28-2007, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Olson

....and pistons to small would have made it self knowen right away, after rebuild...

Not necessarily, Mark.
I have some personal experience with this.....courtesy of MTI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jub Jub
Well, considering the amount of cylinder they had to remove to get rid of the scratches, he should have had over sized pistons and rings installed

Mike

**jub jub** · 09-28-2007, 10:22 PM

I can't believe there is all this freaking discusion about the problem. After seeing the damage that was done to the cylinders the first go around I would think the problem is quite obvious.

I can't believe no one else will step in and tell Glenn what the problem is. For crying out loud, don't sugar coat it. It is what it is.

BTW Glenn, the specs that I quoted on the ring gaps are from what my engine builder set my gaps at, and those were for the top rings. The second compression rings were gapped at .017" which are close to GM specs.

Anyway, a compression check doesn't always reveal the problem. You can have poor oil control and still have good compression.

If it were me, I'd be looking for a new rotating assembly. I just sold one for $2500.00 so there are some deals out there. You just have to look for them.

F.J.B. · 09-28-2007, 10:31 PM

First off....... Where is Home? Germany or the USA?????

Second.......Whats a Crate Engine cost in Germany????

Third.......How much did it cost to transport the car overseas????? Or is that a perk of being in the Military????

Fourth.......I have no clue whats wrong with your car.........I take car advice from a chick!!!!!!!

Fifth........Good Luck!!!!!

**Kens06** · 09-29-2007, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jub jub

I can't believe there is all this freaking discusion about the problem. After seeing the damage that was done to the cylinders the first go around I would think the problem is quite obvious.

I can't believe no one else will step in and tell Glenn what the problem is. For crying out loud, don't sugar coat it. It is what it is.

BTW Glenn, the specs that I quoted on the ring gaps are from what my engine builder set my gaps at, and those were for the top rings. The second compression rings were gapped at .017" which are close to GM specs.

Anyway, a compression check doesn't always reveal the problem. You can have poor oil control and still have good compression.

If it were me, I'd be looking for a new rotating assembly. I just sold one for $2500.00 so there are some deals out there. You just have to look for them.

OK OK OK John,
Hindsite is always dead on!!
With the cylinder scoring, a .030 line bore should have been the route to take!
Then new pistons and rings sized accordingly!!
He is in the military overseas and we all know how wealthy our G.I.'s are!!

He only had one or two cylinders eat parts!
Even with the X pipe the even flow of burnt oil doesn't say rings.
Especially since it wasn't there at or during break in!!
You expect oil usage during break in, not after!!

You are sucking oil, now find the source!!

Ken

**MikesZ06** · 09-29-2007, 01:45 PM

This is what undersized pistons can do to the cylinders.....

Mike

GotZ06? · 09-29-2007, 03:08 PM

Glenn,
I watched the video twice and read your post twice.
If I am following you correctly the video of the exaust, when your car is sitting still, was taken after you had driven the car 30 some miles--there for the engine is at operating tempature. If that is the case, then there will be no condensation cloud from the incoming air to the engine.
But if you are getting coolant into the combustion chamber it will produce a cloud of steam.
The way the cloud dissapated so quickly during the video, I would say it is steam and not smoke from burning oil.
Even the video taken of the rear of your car while it is running down the high way, the cloud appears to dissapate faster than I would expect to see if it was smoke from burning oil.
Is the engine oil level or the coolant level dropping?

Russ