Please see the mods in my sig. I was originally running a D-1SC @ 14psi with a stage 1 bracket and 6 rib pulley system. I purchased the car with this set up. After owning the car for several months I started driving a little more aggressive and after about 1,500 miles I destroyed the belt. After having the allignment checked everything was alligned properly. I noticed the boost gauge bouncing around from 12psi to 14psi. Within the next 800 miles I went through three more belts. I contacted ATI Procharger and was told that I needed the stage 2 bracket and 8 rib pulley system upgrade. I had that installed last week by MTI Racing in Marietta, GA. The new crank pulley that was sent from MC Racing was made by Innovators West Inc. instead of the ATI Superdampener that I had on the 6 rib set up. After everything was installed we realized that the new 8 rib crank pulley was larger in diameter than the 6 rib pulley. The result was 16psi of boost instead of 14psi of boost. The new 8 rib belt intially started slipping around 5k rpm's. After making adjustments to the belt in small progressive increments MTI was able to move the slippage to 5,800 rpm's. I am very frustrated because I am now out $3,500 and still have a belt that slipps. No alignment issues, no fraying, just slippage which leads to premature belt failure. I was informed by ATI Procharger and MC Racing who does the fabrication for ATI Procharger that this new set up would eliminate my belt issues. I guess my first step is to contact Procharger on Monday and try to get the boost back to 14 psi. but why is my belt slipping with all new 8 rib pulleys and a new stage 2 bracket and tensioner?
It is the belt that was sent with my stage II bracket and 8 rib pulley upgrade kit. I believe the belt is K080897 made by gates. The pulley is an 8 rib 4.00
Look i need some assistance here. I called MC Racing yesterday (which is who I actually paid for the upgrade kit) and was told that they are not in the business of helping other shops. MTI is a supporting vendor of Z06VETTE.com and an authorized dealer for ATI Procharger. I know that there are alot of cars out there running a similar set up with no belt issues. What makes my car the exception please help
Sorry brutha but I'm gonna have to interject here in defense of MC Racing.
Quote:
I called MC Racing yesterday (which is who I actually paid for the upgrade kit) and was told that they are not in the business of helping other shops
I was at MC yesterday and I don't think that's exactly what was said. I think what Justin was saying to you is that ...
1. It's nearly to impossible to diagnose a belt slippage issue without seeing the engine first hand.
Frankly, since the Stage 2 8 rib system came out, they have faced very little if any slippage issues so I don't think they have any special 'tricks' up their sleeve to offer on this.
2. I don't believe he was so much saying that they "were not in the business of helping other shops" (although that is a true statement)...I think he was saying that they would not 'initiate the contact' with another tuner on this.
If you've spent some time around speed shops, you know that the guys are always busy as hell and don't have the admin or clerical support that a lot of businesses have. Other than initiating a phone call on whatever project they are currently working on or ordering parts, you will rarely see a shop take the time to call another tuner and say "hey, how can we help you guys". Just doesn't work that way. I don't believe they turned down a direct inquiry from MTI on this.
I wish that I could be more helpful with you on this issue but as it's been said before, it's damn tough to make a diagnosis without seeing the issue first hand.
Could it be the installation, a product defect, or something totally different? Very hard to say without seeing it.
Sorry brutha but I'm gonna have to interject here in defense of MC Racing.
I was at MC yesterday and I don't think that's exactly what was said. I think what Justin was saying to you is that ...
1. It's nearly to impossible to diagnose a belt slippage issue without seeing the engine first hand.
Frankly, since the Stage 2 8 rib system came out, they have faced very little if any slippage issues so I don't think they have any special 'tricks' up their sleeve to offer on this.
2. I don't believe he was so much saying that they "were not in the business of helping other shops" (although that is a true statement)...I think he was saying that they would not 'initiate the contact' with another tuner on this.
If you've spent some time around speed shops, you know that the guys are always busy as hell and don't have the admin or clerical support that a lot of businesses have. Other than initiating a phone call on whatever project they are currently working on or ordering parts, you will rarely see a shop take the time to call another tuner and say "hey, how can we help you guys". Just doesn't work that way. I don't believe they turned down a direct inquiry from MTI on this.
I wish that I could be more helpful with you on this issue but as it's been said before, it's damn tough to make a diagnosis without seeing the issue first hand.
Could it be the installation, a product defect, or something totally different? Very hard to say without seeing it.
Mike
Mike,
I actually referenced your mad machine before you pulled the C5R block and acknowleged that I knew there were cars out there with higher boost and power than mine with no issues. But my last question to Justin was asking if MTI could call them and the response was as quoted. I understand how busy the shops are and as I told Justin if I were not in Dalton, GA the car would be at MC Racing. Sorry if I said the wrong thing out of frustration. I just need some proffesional guidance here and I understand that it can't always come via the phone.
Last edited by REDROCKET02Z06 : 04-01-2008 at 02:42 PM.
Reason: spelling
Bro, I suspect that if someone from MTI called Matt directly and asked him specific questions he would try to answer them since you bought the Stage 2 bracket/tensioner from them.
As I said earlier though, I don't think there is a lot of 'tricks of the trade' here. I've seen most of the cars that have had the Stage 2 8 rib setup installed along with their Procharger at the MC Racing shop and I don't think I've seen any instances of belt slippage. You can have MTI try and call Matt but I'm just not sure exactly what help he can be on this without seeing it in person?
btw, be sure and have them identify themselves as MTI "of Atlanta". There is not a lot of warm and fuzzy feelings toward MTI 'of Houston' after the screwing we got.
Bro, I suspect that if someone from MTI called Matt directly and asked him specific questions he would try to answer them since you bought the Stage 2 bracket/tensioner from them.
As I said earlier though, I don't think there is a lot of 'tricks of the trade' here. I've seen most of the cars that have had the Stage 2 8 rib setup installed along with their Procharger at the MC Racing shop and I don't think I've seen any instances of belt slippage. You can have MTI try and call Matt but I'm just not sure exactly what help he can be on this without seeing it in person?
btw, be sure and have them identify themselves as MTI "of Atlanta". There is not a lot of warm and fuzzy feelings toward MTI 'of Houston' after the screwing we got.
Mike
Will do Mike and thanks for responding. I've been without the car for 6 weeks and all the pulleys are new, the alternator spins freely, the power steering pump spins freely, I will just wait for MTI Racing of Marietta, GA to call me back with suggestions. I have to suspect the problem is inherrant to the car and not the system from ATI or MC Racing. Hard to swallow but I don't know what else to think.
Did they laser align everything? Somethings definitely wrong if youre seeing slippage out of an 8-rib with a 4 inch blower pulley. Also, judging by your boost and power/torque numbers, I wonder if youve got a bottleneck somewhere in the syste. You seldom see the centrifugal cars make equal/greater torque numbers, and 16psi sounds like way too much boost for that pulley combo.
Are the procharger intercoolers the "new" style or the "old" ones? I think they used to be 3.5inch and then went to 4.5? If they are the old ones, you are jamming way too much air through them, time for a front mount.
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02 Z06. 9.5:1 Forged 346, D1SC, Cerra FMIC w/Tial BOV, 224/228 .571/.589 114LSA, Stage 2 Patriots w/Dual Springs, RPS Clutch, Racetronix, KB BAP, 60l Motrons, Dual Nozzle AlkyControl kit, Kooks 1&7/8 LTs, Hi-flow Cats, Mccord Cutouts, Carbotech XP 10/8s, CCWs, NT01s, Corbeau A4s, BK Harness Bar, Camera Mount, Harnesses and some cosmetic crap. SD Tune 680RWHP, 565RWTQ. Built and maintained by OC Corvette.
Did they laser align everything? Somethings definitely wrong if youre seeing slippage out of an 8-rib with a 4 inch blower pulley. Also, judging by your boost and power/torque numbers, I wonder if youve got a bottleneck somewhere in the syste. You seldom see the centrifugal cars make equal/greater torque numbers, and 16psi sounds like way too much boost for that pulley combo.
Are the procharger intercoolers the "new" style or the "old" ones? I think they used to be 3.5inch and then went to 4.5? If they are the old ones, you are jamming way too much air through them, time for a front mount.
It has the 4.5" twins. The 4.00 pulley is making 16lbs. of boost because they sent me an Innovators West overdrive 8 rib pulley insted of the ATI Performance 10% under drive pulley like I had on the 6 rib set up. The new dyno numbers from MTI Racing were 671.32 RWHP and 589.22 RWTQ @ 6k rpm's and 15.42lbs of boost. I am having MTI check the valve springs next week. After doing some research we found that weak valve springs could be the cause of lost boost past 6k rpm's. I should know some time next week. Thanks for the input.
We found out some time ago that using the taller crank pulley (the one from Innovators West) could up the boost without having to go to a smaller blower pulley and that lowers the chances of slippage on high horsepower Z's.
I suspect you might have been better off going with a 4.5" blower pulley and the taller crank pulley. If I understand correctly, you already had the blower pulley you were going to use (the 4.0") and did not purchase the blower pulley from MCRacing.
Unless you are wanting to run your boost that high (16lbs), you might go to the larger blower pulley and see if that still gets the numbers you were wanting.
We found out some time ago that using the taller crank pulley (the one from Innovators West) could up the boost without having to go to a smaller blower pulley and that lowers the chances of slippage on high horsepower Z's.
I suspect you might have been better off going with a 4.5" blower pulley and the taller crank pulley. If I understand correctly, you already had the blower pulley you were going to use (the 4.0") and did not purchase the blower pulley from MCRacing.
Unless you are wanting to run your boost that high (16lbs), you might go to the larger blower pulley and see if that still gets the numbers you were wanting.
Mike
I shipped the Procharger back to ATI for the 8 rib pulley which was a 4.00, new seals, and a re-polish. ATI then sent the Procharger to MC Racing which shipped me the Procharger, the stage II bracket, the balance of the 8 rib pulleys, and the Innovators West crank pulley. I really thought it was all coming from ATI. ATI knew that I had an ATI Performance 10% underdrive super dampener and I guess that got lost in the communication to MC Racing. I'm really fine with the power. I was informed by MTI Racing today that the car had stock valve springs which was probably lifting the valves under high rpm's and boost. They are in the process of putting on a set of high end springs, retainers, and seals which should eliminate the boost drop off. So it is very possible that the issue isn't related to belt slippage at all. The shop that built the car swore that it had after market performance springs so I guess it's a good thing that I told MTI Racing of Marietta, GA to confirm. I will update after I get the car back. A quick question for you. Was your old set up tuned using the mass air flow sensor or did they use speed density? Do you know the pro's and con's of each? Thanks again Mike.
Last edited by REDROCKET02Z06 : 04-15-2008 at 05:47 PM.
Reason: spelling
Can you list your mods in a little more detail? Heads, type of cam, compression, etc? Also, which longtubes?
Please see the post above in response to Mike. I think that MTI Racing of Marietta, GA found the culprit. I had them pull a valve cover to check the valve springs and the car still had the stock springs. Go figure. The shop that built the engine swore that he used aftermarket performance springs but looking back at the build sheet I can't find them on the parts list receipts. The cam is a custom grind blower cam from Comp. cams. I don't have specs but it is very mild as far as lobe seperation. The heads are factory ported, polished, and re-valved supposedly. The headers are Melrose powder coated. The compression is 9.5:1 I think. I bought the car with all the modifications so that's why there are uncertainties. Lesson well learned on my part.
I shipped the Procharger back to ATI for the 8 rib pulley which was a 4.00, new seals, and a re-polish. ATI then sent the Procharger to MC Racing which shipped me the Procharger, the stage II bracket, the balance of the 8 rib pulleys, and the Innovators West crank pulley. I really thought it was all coming from ATI. ATI knew that I had an ATI Performance 10% underdrive super dampener and I guess that got lost in the communication to MC Racing. I'm really fine with the power. I was informed by MTI Racing today that the car had stock valve springs which was probably lifting the valves under high rpm's and boost. They are in the process of putting on a set of high end springs, retainers, and seals which should eliminate the boost drop off. So it is very possible that the issue isn't related to belt slippage at all. The shop that built the car swore that it had after market performance springs so I guess it's a good thing that I told MTI Racing of Marietta, GA to confirm. I will update after I get the car back. A quick question for you. Was your old set up tuned using the mass air flow sensor or did they use speed density? Do you know the pro's and con's of each? Thanks again Mike.
My set-up is a little different bro.
The ECM no longer controls any engine functions. It's all controlled through the Accel DFI.
Even my throttle is now wire controlled rather than electronically.
Let me throw out my suggestion one more time. Consider using a larger blower pulley and lowering your boost just a tad. I'm not running that much over 16lbs (what you're boosting) and I have replaced everything in my engine with the top of the line parts (block, heads, fuel system, crank, pistons, rods, all bearings, springs, etc, etc) (even my water pump and power steering pump pulleys and facing are reinforced).
I've learned the hard way that anything less than the heaviest duty components are vunerable at high boost.
(btw, my CR is 8.5)
Not trying to be a spoil sport but you might save a few bucks not breaking stuff you hadn't planned on.
please help
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