Hello,
I have a 02 ZO6 with ATI procharger Instaled and tuned by MC racing. I am currently running low boost and making right at 500 rwhp. I am looking at putting new pistons and rods in the cars motor very soon.
My question is while I am in there should I go ahead and do a 4 inch stroker crank and make it a 383 while I am in there. I am sure someone else has already done this. What was your experince? what kind of power/torque did it make? and how soon in the rev range?
I use the car as a all around toy, I road race it I auto-x it, I drag race it, and I have been known to street race it once and a while. The wife and I drive it when we go out of town. I love the great highway mileage. Will I give up going to the 383?
I'm really only looking for 600 rwhp. Would I be better off just leaving it a 347 doing pistons rods and turning up the boost or doing the 383?
Thanks, Hal
__________________
02 Z06 blk/blk, ATI procharged, forged 346, 650 rwhp 542 rwtq, Tune by MC Racing, ,comp cam, Meth inj, LG pro long tubes, DTE trans brace, Spec stage2+ clutch, B&M shifter, Hawk HP brake pads ,Bear 2 pc. Front & 2pc. 14" Rear Eradispeed Cross Drilled & Slotted Rotors, Stainless Steel Brake Lines.
GOT BOOST?
Hello,
I have a 02 ZO6 with ATI procharger Instaled and tuned by MC racing. I am currently running low boost and making right at 500 rwhp. I am looking at putting new pistons and rods in the cars motor very soon.
My question is while I am in there should I go ahead and do a 4 inch stroker crank and make it a 383 while I am in there. I am sure someone else has already done this. What was your experince? what kind of power/torque did it make? and how soon in the rev range?
I use the car as a all around toy, I road race it I auto-x it, I drag race it, and I have been known to street race it once and a while. The wife and I drive it when we go out of town. I love the great highway mileage. Will I give up going to the 383?
I'm really only looking for 600 rwhp. Would I be better off just leaving it a 347 doing pistons rods and turning up the boost or doing the 383?
Thanks, Hal
Hal, just my personal opinion, but based on what your looking for, I'd go with new pistons (possibly dished to lower CR), rods if you need them and some good heads (again, you might use the heads to lower your CR).
That P1 or D1 (can't remember which one you have) is capable of a lot more boost than you currently have once you lower your CR and maybe strengthen the engine a tad. I'd also consider letting Matt install a Meth kit as well.
I ran several HPDE's (along with the drags) with around 600rwhp with my D1 and never had an issue.
As mike said you can lower the CR and turn up the boost and get the numbers you are looking for.
Rods and forged pistons will do that.
Get a deep dished piston and you can lower the CR without changing heads.
But if it were me I would spend the extra 900-1,000 $ and go with a 4" crank.
Why? stroke is torque and HP comes from torque.
Put together right as MCI can do a 383 with just 10lbs of boost will get you 600 at the rears quite easily and safely.
More cubic inches, less boost and no meth injection is simpler and gets my vote. You'll likely have better throttle response with more low-end torque. Let the Procharger handle the higher rpm needs.
More cubic inches, less boost and no meth injection is simpler and gets my vote. You'll likely have better throttle response with more low-end torque. Let the Procharger handle the higher rpm needs.
Just my 2 cents.
That sounds logical on the surface, but as anyone who goes to the track knows, low end torque is not a real big factor on our Z's. We have more than enough even bone stock to burn off the tires (even DR's and slicks) on a launch (drags) or excellerating out of a twistie (HPDE). There is plenty of "throttle response" down low, in fact almost more than we can use productively. The centri blower has already upped that low end torque considerably and there is no noticable lag.
Remember the mans question and think of the circumstances. This is not a debate over cubes vs FI. This man already has a blower application and is simply looking to up his rwhp to around 600. He's probably less than 100rwhp away from that with his current setup.
I think building a stroker motor is overkill for what you are trying to accomplish, Gimpy.
You're right, Mike, although I tend to prefer displacement over FI. Even with FI I prefer the minimum boost necessary. Of course, there are always some who will argue that if some is good then more is better and too much is just right. I'm more of a believer in the "KISS" principle whenever possible, but simplicity is often a complicated (and sometimes more expensive) thing.
The idea of meth injection, although sometimes a good idea or even a necessity at higher boost levels, also adds complexity and another point of potential failure and maintenance.
In the end, however, your idea is sound and likely less costly as well since a little more boost would get him what he wants. After all, there are two sides to every coin.
You're right, Mike, although I tend to prefer displacement over FI. Even with FI I prefer the minimum boost necessary.
Back then, I was making almost 600rwhp (589, I believe) with only 8lbs boost on a D1-SC. I had the stock pistons, rods, etc but did have ported Katech heads that lowered my CR to around 10.5 (if memory serves). Point being that 8 lbs of boost is pretty minimal with a blower capacity of 30lbs (P1-SC) or 32lbs (D1-SC). If boost levels required for this rwhp (600) were a lot higher, I would tend to agree about the NA.
Quote:
The idea of meth injection, although sometimes a good idea or even a necessity at higher boost levels, also adds complexity and another point of potential failure and maintenance.
While I suggested this as an option, I should also point out that at 8 or 9lbs of boost, Meth injection is not a requirement for this setup. It will run just fine on good 91-93 octane fuel.
There is a higher degree of danger if a person runs this setup real hard with a crap tank of guess. It does happen at times...
I understand your rationale, but mine is not to risk danger by designing a system that is dependent on outside sources one has little to no control over, i.e. pump gas quality and octane level. Then to reduce that risk by adding cost and complexity in the event one does. In fact, one could carry that logic to the extreme by employing redundant systems in case the meth injection failed when needed.
I feel it's a more reasonable setup to rely on a build that is inherently less prone to failure in those cases and if so can still cope with them by using already proven methods such as knock sensors and retardation of ignition timing, etc.
At this point we have not been told if he is running a p or d series sc.
6 lbs of boost which is what I take as low boost, but 6 lbs out of a P will not yield the same cfm as 6 lbs out of a d or even way less then a F1 like Mike runs.
Now to get HP and TQ from a P will take a smaller pulley to spin the sc and then you get into slipping belts.
Running a D series you can get about 10lbs with a 4.10 pulley with no belt issues but with a 346ci get about 560rwhp. Been there done it.
Now after forging the engine to safely run 10lbs all day the only way he will see 600+ at the rears will to go smaller on the sc pulley and now there will be belt issues.
This can be overcome by spending 1K+ for an 8 rib belt system.
This is why I recomended the stroker that will get his numbers with out having to go through all the belt issues I have had trying to make the sc do all the work.
I was down to a 3.4" pulley with extra idler pulleys to get the boost and no slippage.
At this point we have not been told if he is running a p or d series sc.
6 lbs of boost which is what I take as low boost, but 6 lbs out of a P will not yield the same cfm as 6 lbs out of a d or even way less then a F1 like Mike runs.
Now to get HP and TQ from a P will take a smaller pulley to spin the sc and then you get into slipping belts.
Running a D series you can get about 10lbs with a 4.10 pulley with no belt issues but with a 346ci get about 560rwhp. Been there done it.
Now after forging the engine to safely run 10lbs all day the only way he will see 600+ at the rears will to go smaller on the sc pulley and now there will be belt issues.
This can be overcome by spending 1K+ for an 8 rib belt system.
This is why I recomended the stroker that will get his numbers with out having to go through all the belt issues I have had trying to make the sc do all the work.
I was down to a 3.4" pulley with extra idler pulleys to get the boost and no slippage.
MY couple of pennies.
Tommy, I wasn't getting any belt slippage problems back with that old setup. I was running at the drags and at several HPDE's at Heartland Park and never had a problem. I did have an 8 rib setup...maybe that's what you mean.
Thanks for all the good advise.
I have a P1SC-1. I am only running 5# of boost. The car curently makes 500.21 rwhp and 434.60 rwtq.
Mike makes a good point when I am auto-X the car i keep it in second gear to stay out of the power. That makes it much easier to drive.
I am planning on lowering the compression. what do you guys recomend? I was thinking around 9.5:1.
I would like to avoid meth inj. I had a bad experience in the past with a turbo Busa. Tank emptied out going down the track and I didn't know it till it went BOOM!! But if that is the way to go, then so be it I will.
This all started because when MC did the install I had good rod bolts put in the motor. When they had the oil pan off to do the new bolts they found piston #6 is missing a piece of it's skirt. We decided to leave it and fix it this winter. Hince the low boost. I am really happy with the power the car makes now. However if I am going to be in there anyway,,, I am sure all of you know how this goes lol. I guess the big thing is I really like how docile the car is down low. (The wife drives it form time to time.) and the fact that I don't half to work on it. I don't want to give that up. Thanks again, Hal
Tommy, I wasn't getting any belt slippage problems back with that old setup. I was running at the drags and at several HPDE's at Heartland Park and never had a problem. I did have an 8 rib setup...maybe that's what you mean.
Mike
Mikey,
That is what I mean.
He can either spend a grand on an 8 rib or a grand on a crank.
Thanks for all the good advise.
I have a P1SC-1. I am only running 5# of boost. The car curently makes 500.21 rwhp and 434.60 rwtq.
Mike makes a good point when I am auto-X the car i keep it in second gear to stay out of the power. That makes it much easier to drive.
I am planning on lowering the compression. what do you guys recomend? I was thinking around 9.5:1.
I would like to avoid meth inj. I had a bad experience in the past with a turbo Busa. Tank emptied out going down the track and I didn't know it till it went BOOM!! But if that is the way to go, then so be it I will.
This all started because when MC did the install I had good rod bolts put in the motor. When they had the oil pan off to do the new bolts they found piston #6 is missing a piece of it's skirt. We decided to leave it and fix it this winter. Hince the low boost. I am really happy with the power the car makes now. However if I am going to be in there anyway,,, I am sure all of you know how this goes lol. I guess the big thing is I really like how docile the car is down low. (The wife drives it form time to time.) and the fact that I don't half to work on it. I don't want to give that up. Thanks again, Hal
Hal,
If you are running a P it will take a lot of boost to get you to that 600 # you are looking for. That will require a smaller pulley on the s/c. The smaller the pulley the more possibility you will have slip.
Keep the same pulley that is not giving you any problems and stroke it.......
Mike and I are both HP junkies he went to the F1 and I went Twin Turbos.
We are not or will ever be done.......
Bottom line is you are in good hands with MCR and they will do what is best for your needs.
Just a few coins of my own. You say a Procharger kit installed by MC Racing. Is this the kit direct from Procharger or maybe a kit from A&A. As I understand things, the tensioning bracketry from A&A does a much better job of belt wrap and supporting higher boost 10-12 lbs. This might be a factor in your choice also.
I am also from the camp of not going to a stroker since low end torque is not a factor with a forced induction Z06. Traction can be a big problem as I'm sure you are aware of already.
I think you will see more from the tuning in this equation. The P1SC easily supports the boost you'll need. Lowering the compression would allow more ignition timing in the tune with less worry.
Just make sure your fuel system (pump and injectors can support the HP you are looking for. Change SC pulley to provide more air and have the PCM tuned to get the correct A/F ratio.
Note currently my '04 Z is making 606 RWHP using 10 lbs boost through the completely stock exhaust system (technically emissions legal). Stock exhaust manifolds completely out the tailpipes. This is with an A&A kit with the Front Mount Intercooler (FMIC) and has been on the car since 2004.
I do drive spiritedly most of the time but I have not taken her to the track since she is traction limited for drags and I have a '95 Coupe for HPDE.
Later ... Larry S.
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TR '04 Z06 - Procharger P1SC by Next Level Performance
607 RWHP 507 RWTQ. Stock exhaust, Comp Cam 218/226 on 115 LSA.
Just a few coins of my own. You say a Procharger kit installed by MC Racing. Is this the kit direct from Procharger or maybe a kit from A&A. As I understand things, the tensioning bracketry from A&A does a much better job of belt wrap and supporting higher boost 10-12 lbs. This might be a factor in your choice also.
Just to let you know Larry, MC does not normally use the A & A bracket. A few years ago, the A & A bracket was better than the one from ATI, that is certainly not the case now. As a matter of fact, MC Racing worked WITH Procharger in the developement of stronger, better brackets (with more belt wrap) and intercoolers and having seen both, the ATI kit is IMHO much better than the rest.
I don't know however, whether Hal has the old style bracket & intercoolers or the new.
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I'm more of a believer in the "KISS" principle whenever possible, but simplicity is often a complicated (and sometimes more expensive) thing. 
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