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Old 03-06-2010, 08:14 PM   #1 (permalink)
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More hp with racing fuel?

Will I gain hp with my stock '07Z if I use 100 oct. or higher racing gas
at the strip?

Is there any difference in using 91 or 93 octane gas?

What hp is produced on regular 87 octane?

Thank you all.
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Old 03-06-2010, 08:16 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: More hp with racing fuel?

I would send a pm to forum member Rosulekg, he's a pretty smart guy when it comes to racing...
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Old 03-07-2010, 03:53 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: More hp with racing fuel?

For a start Octane rates change in value between the US and Europe. A quick wiki search will explain the way it is calculated.

Next comapnies like Shell are starting to boost octane by adding bio fuel to the mix. The result is a slight increase in power and a cleaner and more complete burn. Have found a slghtly better mid range reaction and slightly better mpg. But

a higher octane will be generally automatically adjust the timing of the engine to avoid pinking and resulting overheating and pitting of the piston heads.

Going beyond a pump spec Octane into racing Fuels will need engine timing adjustments at least, and perhaps modifcation to pistons and valves.

In otherwords use the best pump octane you can afford, but do not expect spectacular time results :-)

I am sure some else can be more precise on this question.
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Old 03-07-2010, 02:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: More hp with racing fuel?

Negative. Over a 120 passes (1/4 mile WOT) in a C5 Z06 with 100 octane vs the local 93 octane, results none. About 55 + passes (WOT) in the LS7 C6 Z06 used 100 octane last year until all gone. Put some 93 pump octane ran faster. It's gotta be a computer thing. For the money get the best local pump gas you can you don't need 100 octane especially if pretty much stock like me. Keep in mind I don't race on the street much less drive the LS7 on it only the strip 5 miles away. What else can a drag racer ask for? :beer:
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Old 03-07-2010, 03:18 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: More hp with racing fuel?

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Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
I would send a pm to forum member Rosulekg, he's a pretty smart guy when it comes to racing...
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Old 03-07-2010, 04:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: More hp with racing fuel?

Tried it, don't bother. Use good top tier pump gas, Chevron/Shell etc. Google Top Tier gas.
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Old 03-07-2010, 10:28 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: More hp with racing fuel?

Previous posts are opposite to testing I've read about motorcycle roadracing motors. The results from that testing was: race gas was the cheapest hp gain over the course of a season. They re-tuned for the higher octane level and any changes in specific gravity to get optimal results. Which is also what they did for the other engine upgrades they compared. Ultimately, race gas was the cheapest thing to do for increased power.

Of course a Corvette push rod V8 at 70 hp per liter is a little different than a dohc 1000cc motorcycle at 150 hp per liter, or a 600cc motorcycle at 180 hp per liter.

As the saying goes, your mileage may vary.

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Old 03-08-2010, 08:31 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: More hp with racing fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meldog21 View Post
Previous posts are opposite to testing I've read about motorcycle roadracing motors. The results from that testing was: race gas was the cheapest hp gain over the course of a season. They re-tuned for the higher octane level and any changes in specific gravity to get optimal results. Which is also what they did for the other engine upgrades they compared. Ultimately, race gas was the cheapest thing to do for increased power.

Of course a Corvette push rod V8 at 70 hp per liter is a little different than a dohc 1000cc motorcycle at 150 hp per liter, or a 600cc motorcycle at 180 hp per liter.

As the saying goes, your mileage may vary.

Dog
You said it right there....re-tuned. You could retune for the higher octane and possibly run more timing because of less knock and squeeze a little more hp.
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:53 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: More hp with racing fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meldog21 View Post
Previous posts are opposite to testing I've read about motorcycle roadracing motors. The results from that testing was: race gas was the cheapest hp gain over the course of a season. They re-tuned for the higher octane level and any changes in specific gravity to get optimal results. Which is also what they did for the other engine upgrades they compared. Ultimately, race gas was the cheapest thing to do for increased power.

Of course a Corvette push rod V8 at 70 hp per liter is a little different than a dohc 1000cc motorcycle at 150 hp per liter, or a 600cc motorcycle at 180 hp per liter.

As the saying goes, your mileage may vary.

Dog

OP did not ask about race gas in a modified motor.

:-?
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Old 03-08-2010, 10:18 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: More hp with racing fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pit Man View Post
You said it right there....re-tuned. You could retune for the higher octane and possibly run more timing because of less knock and squeeze a little more hp.
Bingo!
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:56 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: More hp with racing fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by froggy47 View Post
OP did not ask about race gas in a modified motor.

:-?
I did not provide information about race gas in a modified motor. Just because the motor is in a race vehicle does not mean it's modified. Those tests were done with stock motors.

If I recall correctly the race gas with a retune resulted in about a 5% increase in power. They then calculated the difference in the cost of race fuel vs premium gas over the course of a season.

I have read other tests comparing different race fuels. There they were just looking for which ones provided the most power. Of course at the end they provided the prices too.

So if I didn't say it clearly enough in my previous post, race fuels can and do generally provide up to approximately 5% more power. You do need to retune timing and fuel flow rates to get the most out of them.

Will a totally stock car get a 5% increase in power by just pouring something into the gas tank, probably not. 1%-3% with no tune, maybe. Is it worth it for one or two percent, probably not. Is the cost of fuel and a retune worth 5%, maybe depending on your requirements.


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Old 03-08-2010, 10:26 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: More hp with racing fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meldog21 View Post
I did not provide information about race gas in a modified motor. Just because the motor is in a race vehicle does not mean it's modified. Those tests were done with stock motors.

If I recall correctly the race gas with a retune resulted in about a 5% increase in power. They then calculated the difference in the cost of race fuel vs premium gas over the course of a season.

I have read other tests comparing different race fuels. There they were just looking for which ones provided the most power. Of course at the end they provided the prices too.

So if I didn't say it clearly enough in my previous post, race fuels can and do generally provide up to approximately 5% more power. You do need to retune timing and fuel flow rates to get the most out of them.

Will a totally stock car get a 5% increase in power by just pouring something into the gas tank, probably not. 1%-3% with no tune, maybe. Is it worth it for one or two percent, probably not. Is the cost of fuel and a retune worth 5%, maybe depending on your requirements.


Dog
The gas does not get the gain the tune does and would do so if still using street gas.

Race fuel burns slower and will on it's own slow the engine down.
Octane's only purpose is to reduce engine knock that would pull timing but with the 42 lb/hr in the LS7 a tune can prevent the knock and do so with even 91 octane.

What kills performance is not the octane level but today's use of ethanol that causes leaner AFR and requires more volume used then non ethanol gas.

Being race gas costs $4-5 a gallon it is far cheaper to use water/methanol injection that would allow even cheaper lower octane used and allow even higher timing put in the tune.

The higher the elevation is the less octane is even needed.
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Old 03-09-2010, 08:56 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: More hp with racing fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meldog21 View Post
I did not provide information about race gas in a modified motor. Just because the motor is in a race vehicle does not mean it's modified. Those tests were done with stock motors.

If I recall correctly the race gas with a retune resulted in about a 5% increase in power. They then calculated the difference in the cost of race fuel vs premium gas over the course of a season.

I have read other tests comparing different race fuels. There they were just looking for which ones provided the most power. Of course at the end they provided the prices too.

So if I didn't say it clearly enough in my previous post, race fuels can and do generally provide up to approximately 5% more power. You do need to retune timing and fuel flow rates to get the most out of them.

Will a totally stock car get a 5% increase in power by just pouring something into the gas tank, probably not. 1%-3% with no tune, maybe. Is it worth it for one or two percent, probably not. Is the cost of fuel and a retune worth 5%, maybe depending on your requirements.


Dog
OP said:

Will I gain hp with my stock '07Z if I use 100 oct. or higher racing gas
at the strip?

A "tuned" motor is not stock, that was my point.

A tuned motor changes many parameters of the engine including but not limited to fuel mapping, AFR, etc. and costs anywhere from $300 (hand held tuner) to $500 or $600 or more (multi runs on a dyno).


Last edited by froggy47; 03-09-2010 at 09:01 AM.
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Old 03-09-2010, 09:15 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: More hp with racing fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
I would send a pm to forum member Rosulekg, he's a pretty smart guy when it comes to racing...
I caught it Paul!
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:24 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: More hp with racing fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by froggy47 View Post
OP said:

Will I gain hp with my stock '07Z if I use 100 oct. or higher racing gas
at the strip?

A "tuned" motor is not stock, that was my point.

A tuned motor changes many parameters of the engine including but not limited to fuel mapping, AFR, etc. and costs anywhere from $300 (hand held tuner) to $500 or $600 or more (multi runs on a dyno).

I agree that higher octane will not provide higher performance by itself. Usually it's less performance. Race gas is more than just higher octane. I was speaking to the race gas part of the question and should have been more clear. Especially when answering a question posed by someone with little or no experience with racing or options for performance increases (the OP).

Dog
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