Question, has anyone found an aftermarket anti-sway bar the improves performance on a road course of their stock C-6 Z06 if so what was the benefit and were there any negatives
Pfadt Race Engineering makes a couple different types. Whether or not they will improve ones performance depends on a variety of factors. That said, many have found them to be suitable for their purposes.
I wanted to hear some first hand info. on the improvements such as less understeer or negatives such as too much oversteer,from owners that participate in HPDE, maybe I was asking too much
The team over here at Pfadt Race Engineering just had some extensive first hand experience with just that. We just spent two days at the Reno-Fernley Raceway doing testing on various suspension configurations. We tested all of the Pfadt Race Engineering suspension in every possible configuration, including some new prototype parts, stay tuned for product releases! We were pleased (but not surprised) that when we changed to a set of our “Pfatty” competition sway bars we improved our best lap times from 2:20.2 on the stock C6 Z06 to 2:18.8. This is an improvement of about 1.5 seconds
As for your concerns with negative side effects, it comes down to the trade off between performance and ride quality. Adding a stiffer sway bar will increase the ride harshness, though sway bars do not affect the ride quality nearly as much as springs and shocks.
You also questioned whether sways could reduce understeer to the point of oversteer or vice-versa. Absolutely, sway bars can be a fantastic tuning tool and they can be used to change to overall balance of the car depending on their stiffness. Our Pfadt sway bars have adjustable rates on both the front and rear bars to help you tune the balance of your car for different track conditions and tire combinations. For example, if your car is pushing, you would stiffen up the rear sway bar to move grip to the front wheels.
Also, we believe the stock C6Z rear sway bar is too stiff in relation to the stock front bar, making the car tail happy in stock trim. The Pfadt Sway bars have better overall balance right out of the box and they have the added benefit of adjustability.
Even if you’re not looking to do a major suspension change, consider at least replacing your stock rear sway with the rear sway from the Z51. The Z51 rear sway has about half the rate of the stock Z06 sway. We feel this set up is better balanced. This setup might be slower for the Nurburgring but it will be better for autocross events.
If you have any questions please don’t hesitate to give us a call. We are always excited to talk to you!
The team over here at Pfadt Race Engineering just had some extensive first hand experience with just that. We just spent two days at the Reno-Fernley Raceway doing testing on various suspension configurations. We tested all of the Pfadt Race Engineering suspension in every possible configuration, including some new prototype parts, stay tuned for product releases! We were pleased (but not surprised) that when we changed to a set of our “Pfatty” competition sway bars we improved our best lap times from 2:20.2 on the stock C6 Z06 to 2:18.8. This is an improvement of about 1.5 seconds
As for your concerns with negative side effects, it comes down to the trade off between performance and ride quality. Adding a stiffer sway bar will increase the ride harshness, though sway bars do not affect the ride quality nearly as much as springs and shocks.
You also questioned whether sways could reduce understeer to the point of oversteer or vice-versa. Absolutely, sway bars can be a fantastic tuning tool and they can be used to change to overall balance of the car depending on their stiffness. Our Pfadt sway bars have adjustable rates on both the front and rear bars to help you tune the balance of your car for different track conditions and tire combinations. For example, if your car is pushing, you would stiffen up the rear sway bar to move grip to the front wheels.
Also, we believe the stock C6Z rear sway bar is too stiff in relation to the stock front bar, making the car tail happy in stock trim. The Pfadt Sway bars have better overall balance right out of the box and they have the added benefit of adjustability.
Even if you’re not looking to do a major suspension change, consider at least replacing your stock rear sway with the rear sway from the Z51. The Z51 rear sway has about half the rate of the stock Z06 sway. We feel this set up is better balanced. This setup might be slower for the Nurburgring but it will be better for autocross events.
If you have any questions please don’t hesitate to give us a call. We are always excited to talk to you!
888-972-2464
~Aaron
Hi Aaron--
Suppose you're autocrossing the car in Super Stock and that you have to use the OEM stock rear bar, but the front bar is a free choice (SCCA rules dictate that you must use the stock rear bar).
Could you comment on how well the car would react to an adjustable front bar set to just slightly more stiff than the OEM bar?
Suppose you're autocrossing the car in Super Stock and that you have to use the OEM stock rear bar, but the front bar is a free choice (SCCA rules dictate that you must use the stock rear bar).
Could you comment on how well the car would react to an adjustable front bar set to just slightly more stiff than the OEM bar?
Thanks,
Jim
Jim,
We made a SS bar for just this reason in our old style of sway bars. I just got in some prototypes for the same in our new design.
I think that some roll stiffness in the front is what the Z needs to balance it out. Some adjust ability would be a bonus to allow for a little fine tuning.
Can you 'backdate' to a Z51 bar? That might be a nice option to have. Our new adjustable SS bar should work with either the Z06 or Z51 rear sway. If you can swap that out, you would have a multitude of tuning options.
PM me if you are interested in a SS front bar.
-Aaron
__________________ aaron@pfadtracing.com Pfadt Race Engineering
888-972-2464
2315 S 2300 W
Salt Lake City, UT 84119
Increasing the front roll bar torsion will increase understeer. Although the '06 and most '07 C6 Z06's tended to oversteer at speed, especially on a rough surface, much of that was eliminated when they revalved the rear shocks in late '07. However, they now tend to push slightly more than before at slow speeds. Thus, it was a compromise. They sort of robbed Peter to pay Paul in other words. The point being, generally speaking, it's best to tune the end that is having issues rather than compensate by tuning the opposite end.
Increasing the front roll bar torsion will increase understeer. Although the '06 and most '07 C6 Z06's tended to oversteer at speed, especially on a rough surface, much of that was eliminated when they revalved the rear shocks in late '07. However, they now tend to push slightly more than before at slow speeds. Thus, it was a compromise. They sort of robbed Peter to pay Paul in other words. The point being, generally speaking, it's best to tune the end that is having issues rather than compensate by tuning the opposite end.
I agree. However, most SS autocrossers have already done a shock upgrade to an adjustable. With that, an adjustable front bar that works in a range around the factory Z bar would be a nice addition. The understeer/oversteer issue is also very dependent on the exact tire size combo. If you go up from the 275s in the front, you can easily move from understeer to oversteer. Also, torsional stiffness does not necessarily remove grip from the end you stiffen, it helps weight transfer to the 'loose' end of the car increasing the overall grip level of the vehicle.
Generally you can influence understeer by adjusting the sways (or even springs or shocks) on either the front (softer) or the rear (stiffer). The decision can come down to whether the car would benefit more from more stiffness or less overall. You can get the grip balanced either way.
Anyone ever actually seen the valving data for the new and old Z shocks?
I agree. However, most SS autocrossers have already done a shock upgrade to an adjustable. With that, an adjustable front bar that works in a range around the factory Z bar would be a nice addition. The understeer/oversteer issue is also very dependent on the exact tire size combo. If you go up from the 275s in the front, you can easily move from understeer to oversteer. Also, torsional stiffness does not necessarily remove grip from the end you stiffen, it helps weight transfer to the 'loose' end of the car increasing the overall grip level of the vehicle.
Generally you can influence understeer by adjusting the sways (or even springs or shocks) on either the front (softer) or the rear (stiffer). The decision can come down to whether the car would benefit more from more stiffness or less overall. You can get the grip balanced either way.
Anyone ever actually seen the valving data for the new and old Z shocks?
Good discussion
-Aaron
Just to finish up, the advantage of an adjustable front bar is tunability. (No, Aaron, you can't "backdate" to the Z51 bar; us Super Stockers are stuck with the rear OEM bar.) Thus I can start off with stock shocks, an alignment, a wheel tire combo I like, a ride height I like, the OEM rear bar, and vary the stiffness of the front bar to get the turn in, exit, and steady state characteristics I'm after. If I change shocks, I can tune the front bar again. That's probably what I'll do. Aaron, I'll probaly give you a call in the spring.
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