For those of you with '08 cars, you know that Onstar was made standard equipment on these cars. I was quite surprised to learn that there is a "dark side" to this heavily promoted service. Do most of you realize that your conversations can be heard [u]without[u] Onstar prior notice? How about instances of Onstar calling people in the middle of an HDPE lap or dyno session because they "noticed" that the car was performing at a very high level? There have been legitimate concerns raised regarding the ability of Onstar to unlock your car - what if the Onstar system gets hacked into like so many other supposedly "safe" systems such as the Dept of Veterans affairs, the IRS, Fidelity Investments...etc?
There is a thread over at Digital Corvettes regarding the Onstar issue - might be worth reading. I paid cash for my car, so there were no issues regarding disconnecting "Hal" in my car. When properly done, it can be reversed later on an it effects nothing else in the car including my Nav or Satellite. I always carry a cell phone, often off, that I can use if needed. For those of you who think I am being , I suggest you read the other forum thread BEFORE passing judgement. It was a real eye opener for me....
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'08 Atomic Orange Z06 with 3 LZ Sienna Wrap Interior, Nav, and Chromies. M2W, Halltech Killer Bee, Air Charger, 180 degree thermo, Body Colored Spoiler, More Mods coming
Hehehe... Yeah I read that thread when there was "only" 8 pages It's certainly interesting.
I don't consider myself an anti-government freak by any stretch of the imagination (ok ok... maybe I am after all!), but yeah the simple idea of anybody potentially having the ability to turn off my car by distance makes me cringe.
So if I ever can buy another vette, you can rest assured I will remove that OnStar module the very night I get the car
We had a heated debate here some time ago. These issues are very real. Having a Law enforcment backround I'll give you another concern. Being tracked. LE also use EZ pass and Sunpass and all of those toll passes to track and document your whereabouts. Alot of states toll pass companies don't even require a warrant just a request from LE. Concerned? I am. I don;t subscribe to the "if your not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about" mentality. It's ripe for abuse just as the Patriot Act was abused to the tune of over 400 times in the first year by the FBI. There wasn't one penalty either, just don't do that again, for the most part. Scary.
The Onstar box "Hal" is located on the floor under the passenger seat of our Z's.
1. Disconnect the Onstar fuse located in the fuse box behind the passenger side kick panel. It is on the left side, second fuse down - consult your owners manual to ensure you are pulling the right fuse.
2. See pages 10/11 of the DigitalCorvettes forum Onstar thread - these pages have very clear pictures and explanations of what to disconnect and what to NOT disconnect on the unit. If you really want to learn more about the ways this thing can be used and HAS been used by the Onstar folks, it is worth reading the whole thread.
3. Slide the passenger seat as far forward as it will go.
4. If your hands are large (like mine) it will be very difficult to reach "Hal" under the seat. Take off the two rear seat track bolts and raise/block the tracks about two inches. This should give you sufficient room to follow the instructions from the DigitalCorvettes thread. I zip tied the loose cables and covered the ends with electrical tape, then shoved them under the carpet.
6. Enjoy being off the grid and returning complete control of your car to its owner! Be assured that done properly, this will NOT affect any of the cars other operations including NAV and SAT.
You may get a call from Onstar on whatever number you provided the dealer (won't be the Onstar unit in your car!) telling you there is a problem with your unit. I have not gotten this call yet, but if and when I do, I will tell them that there is no problem, it is disconnected - "buh bye".
So far, no one that has done this has gotten any error messages - even if you do get one, it would only pertain to the death of "Hal"...
The Onstar box "Hal" is located on the floor under the passenger seat of our Z's.
1. Disconnect the Onstar fuse located in the fuse box behind the passenger side kick panel. It is on the left side, second fuse down - consult your owners manual to ensure you are pulling the right fuse.
2. See pages 10/11 of the DigitalCorvettes forum Onstar thread - these pages have very clear pictures and explanations of what to disconnect and what to NOT disconnect on the unit. If you really want to learn more about the ways this thing can be used and HAS been used by the Onstar folks, it is worth reading the whole thread.
3. Slide the passenger seat as far forward as it will go.
4. If your hands are large (like mine) it will be very difficult to reach "Hal" under the seat. Take off the two rear seat track bolts and raise/block the tracks about two inches. This should give you sufficient room to follow the instructions from the DigitalCorvettes thread. I zip tied the loose cables and covered the ends with electrical tape, then shoved them under the carpet.
6. Enjoy being off the grid and returning complete control of your car to its owner! Be assured that done properly, this will NOT affect any of the cars other operations including NAV and SAT.
You may get a call from Onstar on whatever number you provided the dealer (won't be the Onstar unit in your car!) telling you there is a problem with your unit. I have not gotten this call yet, but if and when I do, I will tell them that there is no problem, it is disconnected - "buh bye".
So far, no one that has done this has gotten any error messages - even if you do get one, it would only pertain to the death of "Hal"...
We had a heated debate here some time ago. These issues are very real.
At which time I showed this concern in not valid. It's paranoia and belongs in the realm of conspiracy conjecture. I also showed a letter from OnStar as you may recall. In addition, the courts have ruled that in order to track a GPS equipped cellular phone a court order is required. They must also obtain one to eavesdrop on a cellular phone without the persons knowledge.
Precedent...
Quote:
Under federal law, the FBI can obtain court orders compelling telecommunications companies, ISPs, landlords and others to assist the Bureau in spying on customers. But the law requires that surveillance in such cases be conducted "unobtrusively and with a minimum of interference with the services" provided by the company. With the navigation system's cellular link dedicated full time to eavesdropping, the system had no way to communicate with the company's response center if the roadside assistance or emergency reporting features were activated, according to the court's split 2-1 decision.
"Pressing the emergency button and activation of the car's airbags, instead of automatically contacting the Company, would simply emit a tone over the already open phone line," the majority wrote. "[T]he FBI, however well-intentioned, is not in the business of providing emergency road services, and might well have better things to do when listening in than respond with such services... The result was that the Company could no longer supply any of the various services it had promised its customer, including assurance of response in an emergency."
At which time I showed this concern in not valid. It's paranoia and belongs in the realm of conspiracy conjecture. I also showed a letter from OnStar as you may recall. In addition, the courts have ruled that in order to track a GPS equipped cellular phone a court order is required. They must also obtain one to eavesdrop on a cellular phone without the persons knowledge.
Precedent...
I wonder if you even bothered to peruse the thread I referenced from the other forum before using pejorative terms such as "paranoia". Now, I suppose it is possible that the posters there are paranoid schizos, but I think not. The marriage of cell phone technology and GPS easily supports these type of activities. So, you think that because Onstar published policy forbids these types of activities they do not happen? Wow. Tell that to people whose personal information was compromised by several government agencies such as Dept of Va affairs and the IRS. The IRS has extremely strict rules against their employees doing unauthorized browsing of taxpayer files, but there are still new incidents of it every year. I have worked in Washington D.C for a long time, and I know of this personally. Or, how about the number of times that businesses have compromised their customers private data because of careless practices with their automated systems ? So, you think that Onstar employees cannot do the same? You think that the Onstar system cannot be hacked into? WOW...
The events of 9/11 have required our government to make some necessary changes, but I think we all (or most of us) are concerned about the line between personal privacy and security. There is no doubt in my mind that in the future 9/11 will be considered one of the major watersheds of American History. The Onstar system uses technology which can easily be perverted from the stated objectives of its formal policy. It is clear from the other forum's thread I referenced, that there have been some questionable practices by Onstar. The system clearly has extensive capabilities that could be subject to abuse.
I have decided that I do not want this unasked for capability in my property, and have taken the steps I deemed appropriate.
I made my decision and I respect whatever your decision will be. I will not even consider your decision to be "paranoia" if you happen to disagree with me.
I do know that a court can subpoena the onstar data around the time of a crash because it says so in the On Star info GM gives to owners. That means if you are in a crash, On Star saves the last moments before the crash and then a court can get a hold of it regardless of your wishes if it wants to. In other words, your car can't plead the 5th if the On Star is hooked up.
Prosecution: "so when the On Star data says you were going 143mph 28 seconds before you hit the school bus filled with student nuns, were you unaware of your speed, or just too busy talking to your mistress on your cell phone at 5:32PM and 26.5 seconds GMT?"
Me: "there was a Porsche following me, can't that damn On Star tell you that?!?"
At which time I showed this concern in not valid. It's paranoia and belongs in the realm of conspiracy conjecture. I also showed a letter from OnStar as you may recall. In addition, the courts have ruled that in order to track a GPS equipped cellular phone a court order is required. They must also obtain one to eavesdrop on a cellular phone without the persons knowledge.
Precedent...
Mabey you should do a search and read the Patriot act. It will shock you. You do not need a warrant. Also look into the abuses be law enforcement of the patriot act in just the first year, they went hog wild to the tune of over 400 abuses of it. I don't care what Onstar says in writing. For a normal investigation you do need a warrant, but have you noticed they attach everything to terrorism lately. Pm me and I'll give you the name of a Detective in NY that abused his position under the guise of a terrror investigation to pull phn records of a girl he wanted to persue. Yes he got caught and it's in the paper but he did it. He did it thru the prosecutors office! Look into a company that was called locatcell on the web they were the ones that pulled General Wesley whatever(the one who ran for President a while ago) phn records and started the whole scandal about how easy it is to get this info. Then they made laws against it so the companies went to Canada and still do it. I know of a service that will gps your phn give me your # if you feel that secure. You will be shocked. One of these companies got closed down after the Generals publicity about the info being bought and they found that many law enforcement agencies were using it and paying for it as an "expense" to further their investigation because they couldn't get the warrant! I know your good at doing searches, look back. TECHNICALLY you are right about needing a warrant on some things but not on all, especially toll records. Look into the agreement of, as an example, EZ Pass in NYC. It's in the agreement that your info can be given to LE w/o a warrant. Don't be nieve to think this info cannot be easily obtained. On star might have policies but so do the phn companies and this info can be obtained including GPS. Don't believe me go, to a slick private investigator and tell him money is no object, can you get me phn records and can you gps a phn. And as stated they will have your Onstar records if you have an accident, legally because it's there on a silver platter, and they will subpeona your phn records to see if you were talking at the time, cause they can. No Onstar=no record, phone off= no records and no GPS. It's that simple don't believe because it's illegal or wrong that it won't be done. And to believe that they play by the rules is silly.
So, you think that Onstar employees cannot do the same? You think that the Onstar system cannot be hacked into? WOW...
I know for a fact they can't. OnStar does not have the means to listen into a call without the occupants of the vehicle being aware of it. That is not conjecture or Internet rumor. Again, it's a fact.
And once again it would be ILLEGAL for anyone to do so, even if they could, without a court order. Although OnStar does use a cellular network, unlike a cellphone, OnStar equipped vehicles are neither designed nor equipped in a manner that makes surreptitious listening possible.
Furthermore, OnStar CAN NOT determine ones vehicle speed, even if you call them.
"It takes two to tango" as the saying goes and thus the equipment in the vehicles must also be designed and integrated into the vehicles in order to make such eavesdropping feasible. However, OnStar equipped vehicles DO NOT have this capability and thus neither do OnStar call centers.
By the way, the above court precedent was not referring to OnStar, but a competing service. However, the outcome covers all such services, including OnStar.
ps: Are you also worried about the NSA intercepting your phone calls and email? Do you think the NRO was ordered to task satellites in order to observe you 24/7? Have you spotted any mysterious black helicopters seemingly following you? Are there windowless vans parked in front of your house (and I'm not talking about your daughters boyfriend.)
Did you know any federal, state or local police agency can obtain a warrant, given probable cause, and enter your home, day or night? In fact, they dont even need a warrant if it is deemed a matter of national security, among other reasons. Hell, the Coast Guard can board your vessel without a warrant and search it...any time.
It's a fact we're all going to die some day, so surreptitious eavesdropping is not exactly at the top of my personal worry list. Even things like...
Fire, floods, tornados, hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, Gamma-Ray bursts, large meteor or comet impacts, global warming, economic meltdown, communist takeover, Bubble Nucleation, global thermonuclear war, Rogue Black Holes, a large coronal mass ejection, aliens, ecological collapse and of course any manner of disease plagues or personal ailments don't terribly concern me to the point I dwell on them on an Internet forum. Disregarding this post that is.
And still, some people are worried about OnStar listening to their in car conversations?
I'm afraid there are a LOT more things one should worry about (if they're prone to worrying) than the above.
I'm still waiting for two things: to find out who shot JFK and my flying car. They said we'd all have flying cars by now.
I never liked Onstar and the service they provide. If I had a C6Z, I would disable it.
I remember reading an article in a magazine about a test-drive they were performing on X vehicle. The person who wrote the article said they were contacted by Onstar in the middle of their test-drive to ask if they were okay. I don't remember if they were doing donuts, or whatever they were doing when this happened. When I read that, I knew it wasn't something I wanted.
Blu - you said the car was paid for and that didn't make it an issue to disconnect the Onstar system. Would the dealer object to your disconnecting it if it wasn't paid for?
It's your car, you should be able to do what you want.
No they weren't. That's OnStar will not call you unless your airbag deploys for example.
That "article" you're referring to MAY have been a post on this forum that was posted by someone who claimed a friend was contacted by OnStar because he was speeding, in excess of 120 mph at the time.
It was proven to be then as well because they CAN NOT monitor or determine an OnStar equipped vehicles speed, even if YOU call them first.
And yes, I know the car is capable of having its own phone number, as does mine. However, OnStar will NEVER call that number unless it is an emergency and they are notified of it by the OnStar system. Again, as in an airbag deployment whereby the VEHICLE INITIATES the call.
Your instrument panel can light up like a Christmas tree and OnStar won't know about it, nor will they call you. They won't know until, and unless, you have enabled OnStar vehicle diagnostics, whereby they will simply email you a disgnostic report once a month.
Your WHEELS CAN FALL OFF and they WILL NOT call you! Unless your airbag deploys, again at which time the VEHICLE calls OnStar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeta08
do know that a court can subpoena the onstar data around the time of a crash because it says so in the On Star info GM gives to owners. That means if you are in a crash, On Star saves the last moments before the crash and then a court can get a hold of it regardless of your wishes if it wants to.
You're referring to the Event Data Recorder (EDR). There is one in your vehicle whether you have OnStar or not. Most modern vehicles have an EDR, GM or otherwise. They record the last 5 seconds of data: including vehicle speed, throttle and brake position, airbag deployment parameters, etc. This data can then be legally retrieved for use in a crash investigation only by a court order or with the owners consent.
GM, Ford, Toyota and most other manufacturers have been using these devices in their cars for years.
And for those who want to remove or disable them, think again. There is no way to completely disable or remove them without also disabling other safety features in a way that would be in violation of federal law. Then you WILL have something to be paranoid about.
, I suggest you read the other forum thread BEFORE passing judgement. It was a real eye opener for me....
It's certainly interesting.
Be assured that done properly, this will NOT affect any of the cars other operations including NAV and SAT.
OnStar will not call you unless your airbag deploys for example. 
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