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Old 10-22-2005, 09:17 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Z06 & GT3 Comparison

Just drove the wheels off my new GT3 (1200 miles almost) in 6 days. And I just pulled the Z06 out of the garage and went for a drive.

It was very interesting sitting in the Z after having that much seat time in the GT3. The Z felt VERY, VERY Different. However, I really, really got a feel for the differences between two makes of super cars.

They are two different cars. The Z06 is faster than the GT3 off the line. It's got 5.7 liter grunt everywhere. It's softer in the suspension, more comfortable, the radio blows the doors off the radio in the GT3. It's fun and easy to drive. I can fit 3 sets of golf clubs in the rear. The Gear throw is easy, but long compared to the GT3. The clutch is butter soft. The engage range is much tighter than the GT3. The Z has about 1/4" of travel from clutch disengaged to engaged. The seats on the Z are much softer, and more comfortable, but afford no lateral support to the driver. I feel like I am sitting on a pillow with no side support in the Z.

The GT3 on the other hand, is tight, has a throw so short as to be unmeasurable (I have the short shift option), jumps from 70 to 120 while passing in a heartbeat. It's more precise. It's stiffer. The car will hit Bump Steer quicker, and will jump around in the Yaw plane. If you are not on top of it and you hit a major Rutt while changing lanes and accellerating to 120 to pass on a badly rutted road you might end up poorly. It's not bad, but it is a race car, and hitting a rut while turning or changing lanes can be an experience. Anyone could handly it, but if you are casually driving one handed, you could be in for trouble. The steering wheel is a racing wheel. It has the two bumps at 10 and 2 which I think every car should have. Very nice. The wheel feels very attached and precise. The seats are harder, but they feel much more supportive in the lateral directions. When I sit in the P-car, I feel like I am clipped into the seat. Though, the seat is uncomfortable until you find that perfect position. This position will be much different for every person. The Clutch is much stiffer. It requires more attention to drive. The Binders are better. There is no storage space. I would have to fold my R7 Taylormade three times to fit it into the boot. The engine power curve is "peakier". Hitting right around 3k rpm where it takes off. Almost a turbo lag like hit of acceleration when you hit 3k. It Redlines at 8,000 RPM.

Stiff clutch? The GT3 clutch is MILES harder/stiffer than the Z06. The GT3 has about 1-1/2" or so of travel between fully engaged and fully disengaged; The Z? 1/4" or so. First time I drove the Z06 after driving the GT3 for 1200 miles, I just about put the clutch through the floorboards it was so easy to push in! The throw of the stick in the Z is much longer than the short shift option I have in the P-car. Though anyone who says that the Z is notchier/stiffer/more difficult that the Porsche is patently lying and/or has never driven the GT3 or the Z.

In a turn, if you lift, you do feel a strange sensation. The settling/pulling of the rear of the car as the center of gravity moves forwards due to the rear mount of the engine. I was not sure what it was until just a few minutes ago thinking about it. When you lift, particularly in a corner, you feel this weird transfer of weight that I have never felt before, and it's due to the rear engine. I would imagine at the very ragged edge of adhesion, this might be a very, very bad thing to run into.

The P-car expects you to know what you are doing. And won't give you the grace of a computer system recover if you screw up. It's much more European. You are responsible for yourself. The Z Car is more american. It's setup to protect you from yourself.

I sense German Precision in the Porsche. When you are doing 3 MPH, you can see that on the Analog Speedo. Where american cars get kinda vague under 10mph. The Porsche crest on the steering wheel is PRECISELY centered on the turn axis of the steering wheel. No wobbly arc of a turn for this emblem. It's EXACTLY centered. You will notice this after driving for a while that the Porsche emblem on the wheel does not wobble left or right, or up or down when you turn. There is no up and down adjustment of the steering wheel, though you can pull the wheel farther forward or push it away from you.

The Z and The GT3 share the same load lightening noise. Little to no insulation around here. The doors on the Z clunk closed a bit more solidly - and you can hear the hollowness of the Porsche doors when closed. Tap the roof and you hear the metalic hollow sound of metal. I wonder how much weight they could have saved had they used modern plastics/fiberglass?

The Xenon headlight package is awesome. I wish all cars had it. The second you turn them on - you notice the impressive difference.

I see tons more vettes on the Roads. Lots of Z06's. I have yet to see another GT3 when I have been driving in Phoenix or Las Vegas. Everyone stops to look at the GT3. Some people stop to look at the Z06.

I was a bit lost without the HUD at first! I kept looking vaguely somewhere in the P-car for a speed readout and realized it was my habit of using the HUD in the Z. The Speedo in the P-car is actually poorly placed, and rather difficult to get a precise reading at speed. There is a smallish digital display, and then a speedo guage. Both of which are kind of blocked by your knuckles/hands when driving. Of course, the Gerhmahns put the Tach in the middle. Which, I don't necessarily disagree with!

Here is a pic of the dash:



As you can imagine, put your hands on the wheel, and it kinda makes for a tough view of the MPH.

There is no Oil Temp readout - so you cannot watch oil temperature. Only a water temp gauge. The digital readouts are all about Temp, Avg Gas mileage, Miles to Empty. No real engine info here. Almost like Porsche does not want to allow you to see what your engine is doing. I LIKE knowing what my car's vitals are about. The Porsche does not allow me to see this stuff. Where I can get 6 vitals from the Porsche (Battery Volts, MPH, RPM, Water Temp, Gas, Oil Pressure), I can get 7 in the dash of the Z. Battery, Water Temp, MPH, RPM, Oil Pressure, Gas & Oil Temp in the digital display, amoungst others. The digital info available on the Z is way more than you can find on the P-car. The P-car does allow for display of 3 items at a time. But they are limited to your choice of Odometer, Trip Odometer, Outside Temp, Avg Gas Mileage, Miles to Empty, Radio Station Name and Avg Speed.

Which is better? In my opinion, they are both great cars, and I am lucky to have them both, and I have a tough decision choosing which to drive each day. (I know, I know, Poor me!!!)

I suspect given an average driver, he is going to drive faster and safer in the Z06. Given an excellent driver, the GT3 just might have the edge. I have raced the Z06. I have not raced the GT3. The stock Z06 was passed that day by two cars only. A Ferrari Modena (race Prepped & a better driver than me) and a GT2 (I think) which actually never passed me, but he could have if the driver knew how to drive a line in the corners It was brutal, I mean BRUTAL fast on the straights and the Z was left in the dust.

I like both cars. I mean, I really, really like both cars. I am kind of an attention slut, so it's kinda neat driving the GT3 and hearing kids and adults alike say "WOW!! A GT3!!!!" and people stopping to ask about it. I don't get that as much with the Z06. I do get it, but not as much. Just like the Z, both the P-car and the Z are instant friend makers for fellow afficianado's.

The Z IS the better value looking at purely dollar numbers. And some would even argue it's the better value for the average driver. The Porsche is a true race car (super car even?) in almost everyone's eyes. It feels more pure in the sense that the car is not going to protect you from reality, and it's not going to blanket your feel with a computer system. I know, I know you can turn it off in the Z, but the idea/sense is still there.

And if you want to know, which would I choose if I had to choose only one? Well, I just don't know! Like I said, I really, really, really like them both. So, well, I just won't choose dammit!!

Because Ultimately, which car you prefer is your own personal choice. And which car you find "better" is just that as well. A personal experience of what you value more. Each car is very well capable of being better than the other in it's stock configuration given any number of drivers.

So, you won't find a ringing proclamation of "The X Car is Better" here. But, as the owner and driver of the classic rivalry of Porsche Vs Corvette. I can say. They are both hands down, impressive cars, and I am happy to pilot them both. And, I can give you FIRST HAND experience in them both. Not Book knowledge or biased opinions having driven one and not the other.

I am however, willing to put my line in the sand on one thing. Millineum Yellow and Speed Yellow, are the BEST colors hands down. Naturally.
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Old 10-22-2005, 09:42 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Nice post. They're both great cars that deliver the goods in very different ways.

Concerning the GT3's rear weight bias...it's great for providing grip coming on-throttle post apex, and it's great for braking dynamics. But you have to watch what you do with the throttle in a turn - lifting can produce instant oversteer. This is easily corrected if you know what's coming, but you can't be snoozing.

The digital speed is what you have to look at - the analog speed reading is basically useless.

I believe your golf clubs will fit behind the seats.
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Old 10-22-2005, 11:17 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Great writeup! It is wonderful to see someone's opinion who has spent time in both, and not just bench racing about one or the other. If you get a chance to take the GT3 to a road course, do let us know how it does vs your experience with the Z06 in terms of driver confidence, speed, braking points, how fast you get up to pace, ect.
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Old 10-22-2005, 12:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Great post. I have a Carrera4 Cab and it is no GT3 or Z06.

I think it would be a blast to take the C6.R and the Peterson White Lightening Porsche RSR for a few laps to feel what a real race car is like. Hell, why not take the AM DBR9 out for a couple laps too. This sounds like it should be dream vacation givaway by IMSA/ALMS or something. Panoz family, are you listening?

Sorry to get off topic. I really wish that I could have the C6Z06 in addition to my Carrera, but I can only work so many hours and need to save for retirement and kid's college.

We need to set up a sports car co-op where we can lease a vehicle for 6-12 months and then swap/trade it out for another sports car. That way over 3-5 years we could drive 3-10 different sports cars depending on what we feel like driving (I know the impossibility of this, but think how much fun that would be).
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Old 10-22-2005, 03:17 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Thank you for the excellent insight to the ownership experience of two such great cars...

I consider both the GT3 and the C5 Z06 to be very similiar in many ways yet be so different in others....just as you mentioned..

I anticipate as time goes on you can give even more drivers impressions so that those of us without both a GT3 and a C5 Z06 can benefit from your insight and experiences..

The GT3 is an awesome car and although I personally prefer the C5 Z06....(read as BIASED!) I dig the GT3! actually I admire the entire 911 lineup with the GT3 as a personal favorite.

As you can see many corvette owners also admire Porsches...

Each of these great cars continually pushes its designers to make the next generation that much better..

It was interesting that Dave Hill mentioned in a previous interview ...........that the Corvettes best competitor was the Boxster and not the 911..

I found that interesting and couldn't understand why until I realized the pricing structure really did make the Boxster a closer competitor to the Corvette (only because the pricing of the 911 so eclipses it these days)

Taking money out of the equation? I'd still opt for a vette but the 911 is so close it surely would be a toss up....

I think I like the GT3 better than the GT2 even though its quite a bit less expensive and probably not as fast in a straight line...

Did you also prefer the naturally aspirated engine performance characteristics of the GT3 over the TT GT2?

Just curious....

Thanks

JB
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Old 10-22-2005, 03:29 PM   #6 (permalink)
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mmmm, you mentioned that funny characteristic inherent in all porsches... throttle lift oversteer. Its definatly been toned down from the 70's porsches where it was a vicious handling characteristic. In a 70s 911s if you were going into a curve with any sort of speed and you lifted off the throttle, youd be traveling sideways in no time. Its an inherent characteristic with rear engined cars, just be careful of it.
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Old 10-22-2005, 04:58 PM   #7 (permalink)
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It would be nice to be able to get into a actual race car, and see what it is like compared to the Z06 and the GT3.

That would be a VERY interesting write up.

Anyone want to offer?

I have not driven the TT GT2, but it was faster in a straight line on the Z hands down. I mean, on the front straight of the Road Course at Vegas Motor Speedway, it was 8 car lengths ahead of me, and I was on it's tail entering the straight. It was brutal. Just brutal fast. The guy who was driving it was having difficulty in the turns, and I would be on his bumper in no time flat for the front straight, and the back straight. When he got it pointed straight though, show over.

I DID drive a 996 X50 Twin Turbo. I like the GT3 better. No debate.

I really, and I mean REALLY don't see that the Z06 is comparable to the Boxter. In every way, every day, it outhandles, out accelerates, out corners, out drives the Boxter. I know, I have been a passenger in one, and I have passed them on the track like they were standing still. Both in the corners and the straights. Price would be the only factor, but that would be like saying the GT3 is comparable to two Z06's. It don't make sense. In my mind at least. But I am a horse power junkie as well.

When I was looking around for a new ride, I quickly understood that not many rides out there put down the 4 second 0-60 acceleration and cost less than the Z. Lotus Elise maybe? But that car is a deathtrap.

I am having a lot of fun with these two cars. They are each very cool in their own way.
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Old 10-22-2005, 05:25 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneRegister
I have not driven the TT GT2, but it was faster in a straight line on the Z hands down... I mean, on the front straight of the Road Course at Vegas Motor Speedway, it was 8 car lengths ahead of me, and I was on it's tail entering the straight. It was brutal. Just brutal fast.
Was that GT2 stock?
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Old 10-22-2005, 05:44 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I am not sure.
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Old 10-22-2005, 06:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I agree the Boxster doesn't seem to be a competitor for the corvette or the Corvette Z06 ........

I remember DAve Hill suggested in an interview that the boxster was his favorite competitor but I'm pretty sure he was speaking of price...not performance...

I wonder how the porsche faithful are reacting to the Cayman S.

Do U have a favorite Porsche site link?

TIA!
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Old 10-22-2005, 08:35 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Thanks for the great write up Kevin! Glad to hear that you are enjoying the car!!!
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Old 10-22-2005, 10:58 PM   #12 (permalink)
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You think the Porsche is twitchy? Take an open wheel formula car on track with slicks. Lift instead of feather off the throttle in a corner and you are spinning like a top. It is basically instantaneous weight transfer due to the car's rigidity. Yikes! Pray it ain't an off camber turn
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Old 10-22-2005, 11:40 PM   #13 (permalink)
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www.rennlist.com is my favorite right now. Z06Kevin is my tag there.
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Old 10-29-2005, 12:50 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Great comparison! I have owned a c5z06 and enjoyed it (also a few other cars) and currently have a ttX50 that I am disappointed in with respect to the steering feel. It's a rocket but something of a computer controlled rocket--not that engaging to drive in some ways at less than full speed. Would you mind elaborating on what you prefer about the gt3 over the x50 you drove?

Thanks.
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Old 10-29-2005, 08:53 AM   #15 (permalink)
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The X50 I drive was a bit softer, and had zero turbo lag. Though, I have never driven a turbo before. I was expecting some kind of head ripping off lag of some sort, but it never kicked my ass into the seat.
It was fast, but I would rate the corvette as in the same category speed wise.
The steering is not as precise in feel as the GT3 to me. The GT3 feels firmer and more tight when doing esses. It has little to no body roll to it.
Remember, I only had about 10 minutes in it, so I am trying to remember and use 10 minutes of comparison.
I did not have a chance to really feel the car like I have the GT3.
Was the car faster from a stop light than the GT3. My Butt-o-meter says they are the same. Let's put it this way, they feel to be in the same "class" of acceleration. I was not as impressed with the speed of the X50 or GT3 as I was the first time I sat in the Z06. (The fastest car to that point I had driven was a 1992 Torch Red Corvette). The speed difference between the C4 and the Z06 was and is mind boggling.
The speed difference between the Z06, ttX50 and the GT3 are in the same class.
Perhaps I am jaded!
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