My take on all this, after reading everyone has posted is. The hood I like. In the showroom it will show. Outside it will show also. If Ferrari does it and gets away with it.. Why can't GM? I know why... because its GM... No one forgives GM for ANYTHING, yet you all forgive Ferrari, BMW and who else for overpricing their vehicles.
That's the problem: "it will show". Unlike Ferrari, the clear cover is a plastic material and not glass. Secondly, it shows what, the fact it's supercharged? So what? We already know that. Ferrari shows an engine that is in itself a work of art rather than a plastic supercharger cover. In addition, they don't cover the engine, possibly to aid heat dissipation, i.e. it's functional, whereas the ZR1 clear cover is not. The Ferrari rear glass is also functional in that you can see through it, because one doesn't sit in the engine compartment while driving.
I agree Ferrari's are exorbinantly priced, but then again that is often the case with exclusivity (vs. mass production) as well as attention to detail and engineering.
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The reason they went with the supercharger is to be able to have an engine that meets DRIVEABILITY concerns and emission standards.
Ferrari shows an engine that is in itself a work of art rather than a plastic supercharger cover.
You would be surprised the amount of people that ask for the corvette, people with buying power that don't know that the car is 7L. Let alone they will know that the ZR1 is supercharged... They don't buy the z06 when i tell them the price because they don't know... They have NOT been acquainted with what its out there. So you think. Ferrari's engine are a work of art but an LS9 isn't?
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In addition, they don't cover the engine, possibly to aid heat dissipation, i.e. it's functional, whereas the ZR1 clear cover is not. The Ferrari rear glass is also functional in that you can see through it, because one doesn't sit in the engine compartment while driving.
So we have a work of art engine with a second hand cooling system and thus we need a window to cool the engine down? Maybe I should put on some of my 120mm fans that i use on my PC in there as i do on the lexan of my PC.
Its the same thing as PC's its totally ridiculous to put a lexan on the side cover of a pc to see inside some components that actually don't move... At least mine is watercooled yet I can't see any water flowing.. But.. it still looks cool... and I remember when the trend started, it was totally.. RETARDED...
Now a days.. modding your pc case is a work of art.... Anyways.. back on topic... I really don't see why we have to punish GM for a window to the engine and say ferrari. OOHHH ahh... lets use the same stick to measure both manufacturers...
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I agree Ferrari's are exorbinantly priced, but then again that is often the case with exclusivity (vs. mass production) as well as attention to detail and engineering.
The Z06 is exclusive also and even more will be the ZR1... Not everyone has 100k to put in a car and still.. there will only be 2000 available NATIONWIDE.. I will be lucky if i see one down here. So... it will probably be as exclusive as seeing an Enzo, ford GT, Carrera GT and those other super extraordinary cars that there is only one local.
Don't take it personal... Its not... but we have to thank GM for stepping up and people, just like Top Gear DUDES, complain about everything GM makes right because its GM... Its like GM Can't make it right... and you know.. they can.. and they did with this car and the z06, CTS-V and the Camaro.. and hopefully the G8 if its not a 10,000lb pig.
Last edited by The Highlander : 01-09-2008 at 08:30 PM.
Personally, I think GM kind of missed the ball. The hood is atrocious in my opinion. The powerplant, while a beast, could have just as easily been a 7.0L with forced induction...I assume it has to do with reliability (but if you're going for broke on a $100k+ supposed supercar, why leave room on the table?).
What I do like are the upgraded brakes (albeit, how about red calipers???), the rims, and that darker graphite color option...
All in all, I don't feel like I'm missing much by owning a C6 Z06 instead. In fact, I'm actually happier with the 427 moniker and the option to upgrade from there n/a. I don't have any problems with force induced cars, I've had them before. But in my opinion, the ZR1 doesn't justify the price on any fronts and leaves too much room on the table of what could have been. Sure, a smaller pulley on the supercharger and I'm getting sick with the car, but I don't know...I just see it and just don't find it that alluring over my standard Z.
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2008 MS Z06
1957 Corvette
2004 Red Yamaha R1
2003 QS Z06 with ModRed interior- Gone to a new home now, but never forgotten
BTW, Highlander, while the performance certainly can be compared to the exotics you mentioned, the car's 2000/annual production doesn't even come close to the exclusivity one can have by owning an Enzo. Especially when you consider it's just a variation of every other Corvette.
I love my Corvette, but I'm not going to try and fool myself by saying I drive a rare breed of sportscar, regardless of which model.
The powerplant, while a beast, could have just as easily been a 7.0L with forced induction...I assume it has to do with reliability (but if you're going for broke on a $100k+ supposed supercar, why leave room on the table?)
Everyone has their own opinions about the car itself, but I do have to throw in my .02 on this particular comment.
As most here know, I've done the blower both ways....346 and 427. Unless you are going for a whole bunch of power, I'm talking 650rwhp or more, I think the smaller cubes works better with a blower. I'm not going to go into all my reasoning behind this, but let's just say I've seen it from both platforms and I think GM chose wisely.
Bottom line, if your looking for naturally aspirated 500 to 600 hp, then a 427 or 454 ci is the way to go. If you're shooting for 600 to 750hp then a smaller cube with FI is the option to choose. If you're willing to spend a WHOLE bunch more money to build a reliable 750+ hp car, then you can go with the bigger cubes and FI.
Unfortunately, I've learned some of this the hard way....
Everyone has their own opinions about the car itself, but I do have to throw in my .02 on this particular comment.
As most here know, I've done the blower both ways....346 and 427. Unless you are going for a whole bunch of power, I'm talking 650rwhp or more, I think the smaller cubes works better with a blower. I'm not going to go into all my reasoning behind this, but let's just say I've seen it from both platforms and I think GM chose wisely.
Bottom line, if your looking for naturally aspirated 500 to 600 hp, then a 427 or 454 ci is the way to go. If you're shooting for 600 to 750hp then a smaller cube with FI is the option to choose. If you're willing to spend a WHOLE bunch more money to build a reliable 750+ hp car, then you can go with the bigger cubes and FI.
Unfortunately, I've learned some of this the hard way....
Mike
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Mike I agree..I've seen some "Wash'n Machine's" in my life too...Jus a lil different kind on different fuel.. 16-71 (NITRO)
Goin down in displacement was the right choice..GM is some smart cookies given the tightrope they have to walk w/standards & requirments etc. etc.
Smaller Cubes means this thing will twist a lil higher into the RPM range...Keep'n the boost up throughout...
Another words..."LOOKOUT"....pulley change..lil head work and different blower cam etc. etc. 750-800 is possible..
Andy
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SIG by the BIGGEST, BADDEST MOFO with a broken down ride - GR8 WHITE
Ferrari's engine are a work of art but an LS9 isn't?
Appearance wise, yes. Ferrari engines usually look good by themselves and don't need plastic "beauty covers" that have no other function.
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Originally Posted by The Highlander
So we have a work of art engine with a second hand cooling system and thus we need a window to cool the engine down?
No, like I said, the window in a Ferrari is there so the driver can see out of it. That is what rear windows are for. Again, unlike the Ferrari's rear window, the ZR1 window has no real purpose and is for appearance only. Ferrari doesn't put beauty covers on their engines because there is no reason to. They look good enough without them. Besides, beauty covers restrict heat dissipation.
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Originally Posted by The Highlander
Its the same thing as PC's its totally ridiculous to put a lexan on the side cover of a pc to see inside some components that actually don't move... At least mine is watercooled yet I can't see any water flowing.
I agree, they are more appearance related, but if you ever get a leak, you can see it. Without a window you have to take the side cover off to check.
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Originally Posted by The Highlander
but we have to thank GM for stepping up and people, just like Top Gear DUDES, complain about everything GM makes right because its GM... Its like GM Can't make it right
No one complains because it was made by GM; they complain when things don't work the way they should, in their opinion. If something works well they will say it works well and if not they will say that too. They often have the same complaints owners do. For example, they complained about the (Z06) shifter, as have many here.
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Another words..."LOOKOUT"....pulley change..lil head work and different blower cam etc. etc. 750-800 is possible..
Andy
I agree with Mike; I think they were smart to go with small cubes to get it to rev higher.
I can't wait to see owners getting 750+ hp with the zr1.
I was expecting to see some obvious body pannel changes since one of the comments from the brass at the general was that they were having to deal with a whole new aerodynamic envelope due to the increased speed potential. Maybe something on the order of the Pratt & Miller C6RS hood and fenders. One of the regular comments from non Z owners is that the Z isn't that much different looking from the coupe. I expected the power output to be around 650 or so but I would have liked the body to be instantly recognized across the parking lot without the peek a boo hood.
Last edited by 2blkvettes : 01-16-2008 at 02:33 PM.
A given car models design is, generally speaking, an evolutionary thing. Look at the '53 Corvette compared to today’s car: quite a difference, right? Now imagine going from what is today’s Corvette to something that's completely different and completely unlike the current design. That isn't going to happen. Corvette design is a generational phenomenon so to speak, with each year of a given generation being very similar and recognizable to one another. Therefore, a radical departure from the current C6 Corvette design to "wow, what is that!?” was once again, never going to happen.
When they said they were having to deal with a whole new aerodynamic envelope due to the increased speed potential, they were referring to the fact they had not produced a car that could attain the speeds the ZR1 can and thus were having to consider what effect this would have on the current design. Therefore, they had to consider what changes they could make in lieu of this, yet keep the car recognizable as a sixth generation Corvette. After all, it's not a new Corvette design, but rather an extension of the existing one, performance wise.
For this reason I was always adamant in stating the ZR1 in essence, would be a buffed up Z06.
The general consensus is the hood is less than desirable. It would appear that they could set this up as an option so you could choose an optional solid hood if you chose. I think GM would create a strong customer service win if they could do this.
The general consensus is the hood is less than desirable. It would appear that they could set this up as an option so you could choose an optional solid hood if you chose. I think GM would create a strong customer service win if they could do this.
Although I think it is unlikely that they will, I would agree with your statement.
One problem the hood causes (maybe) is the limited number of vehicles that will be made. We are used to a situation where there is a pretty extensive aftermarket for our cars so if one of the parts is not to our liking, we buy an aftermarket replacement. Not sure that there will be much of an aftermarket selection for such a limited edition car. Swapping out the hood might not be much of an option.
Mike
(if the hood dimensions are identical to the C6 or the C6Z, then my above statement will probably not apply. frankly, I don't have a clue about this)
Unlike the C6 and C6Z there are no package options with the ZR1. There are no 1LZ, 2LZ or 3LZ interiors for example. If you buy a ZR1 then you get the ZR1 package, which (unfortunately) includes the windowed hood.
Mike is right in that since they are producing only a limited number of these cars, the aftermarket is not likely to make solid hoods for them, regardless of whether or not the dimensions are the same.
Although the consensus is and has been unfavorable regarding the hood window, they are not likely to change it since they likely did it in the first place for the reason I have stated before: it makes the ZR1 unique. Furthermore, since the hood window offers no performance benefit whatsoever it's the only reason for doing it.
If they made it a solid color or offer it in a solid color there's a chance others who own a C6 or C6Z would want them as well. Although they could conceivably VIN lock the hood to a ZR1, there is no reason to when they can simply make them unattractive to buyers other than ZR1 owners. Recall the '04 Lemans edition carbon fiber hoods were locked to a Lemans edition VIN for a time, so there is precedence for this. Therefore, perhaps they didn't because there was no need to since the hood may be dimensionally different, as Mike also alluded to. We already know certain body parts are slightly wider for example.
Thus, the window is purely a marketing gimmick and insures the ZR1 is and will remain unique, whether one likes it or not.
Location: South AL/// Z06 Fest Participant I II III IV V VI
Posts: 1,773
Re: How do you feel about the new ZR1?
Isn't it a great time to be a car enthusiast?
Likes:
600+ HP with a warranty
All forged internals
Heavy duty drivetrain
New gear ratios that allow top speed in 6th gear
Awesome brakes
Michelin tires
Dislikes:
Supercharger= heatsoak
Exposed carbon fiber is soooooo '90s
The opening in the hood is like a window without a view
I was expecting rear wheels wider than 12"
$100K + vehicle repaired by the same techs that primarily work on pickups and Cobalts.
Regardless... I envy the luck SOBs that can get their hands on one and when I see one on the road I'll probably try to give it a run for it's money with my old '01
The more I think about it, the more I think GM will leave the window in the hood. Like ND said, I'm sure they always intended for the zr1 to be unique and stand out - even if some don't like it.
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