Not really. The only exhaust that has shown to be of any decent benefit over the stock Ti system is the Corsa Ti race system. It's expensive though and you have to modify your current exhaust (h pipe) to make it fit. It is lighter than the stock Ti system, mainly because the race system doesn't have any mufflers (you can add them later if you want). It's also freer flowing without the mufflers, so you might pick up some power. The other advantage is that without the rear mufflers, you have extra room for a tranny or diff cooler. That's nice if you're serious about tracking your car.
The gains that you see with the other aftermarket systems are negligible. I wouldn't change the system unless you want to do it for either looks or sound (or both).
Realistically, you probbaly have to combine the catback with an intake and a re-tuning/edit to take advantage of the increased airflow, that is, tell the computer to add more fuel to the airstream.
For me, the Borla Stinger is a good addition anyway because (i) now it sounds like a V-8, (ii) I like having a two tip rearend so it looks different from stock. Plus I can sell the OEM Ti system.
Lingenfelter claims that on a highly modified Z, GHL's make the most power; Up to 30rwhp more than the competition. I'd say that opinion has some clout!
__________________
02' Z06 - Not modded enough.....
78' El Camino - B&B 383 stroker, B&M 400 w/ 2500 stall, custom headers and exhaust, lowered and tubbed, 12 Bolt 3.73 posi - SOLD
Priest:
I think you'll find that claim is when compared to a stock C5 system. Their recommendation, if going from a stock Z06 system, is the Corsa Ti. Our Random Technology 3" system flows similar #'s to the 2 3/4" Corsa Ti Comp. with mufflers, but weighs more than the stock or Corsa Ti Comp. systems, because it's stainless and not Ti.
At this point, there is no "production" 3" Ti system available, although we may "mule" one for a major company this winter...
"Stay tuned"...
Otherwise, there are torque improvements to be had with an intermediate X-pipe.
__________________ PowerPro01 sez "STAY TUNED"................ GarettO's the SigGod! "NOTHING Matters...until you CARE..." Bob Gibson If RACING was EASY, they'd call it WINNING ! Anonymous
Last edited by PowerPro01 : 11-18-2004 at 11:19 AM.
I've been extremely busy or I would have already posted this information, but I have your back to back results on how good (or bad) a factory Ti exhaust system actually is. I have spent the last month or so fabricating a custom exhaust with "Y" pipes and electric cut-outs that when open allows the exhaust gas to "by pass" the muffler and go straight out the tailpipe exits. In reality, some of the exhaust gas will still go thru the muffler as well, but it will take the path of least resistance and the bulk of the flow will take the path off the "Y" pipe that exits directly to the rear. A picture is worth 1000 words, but I hope you get the "gist" of what I built. Bottom line, when the electric cutout is closed, all gases are routed thru the muffler and its business as usual, when I open the cut-out electronically, it essentially completely eliminates the muffler as a "restriction" in the system, not to mention sounds awesome at WOT.
First off, after I cut off both exits and inlet from the factory muffler, I was shocked to see that a 2.5" inlet pipe necks down immediate to a 2" pipe (1.875" ID) YIKES!!! I'm thinking sure it sounds "stealthy" at idle and cruise RPM's, but I would have bet you anything I was going to be down 10 plus RWHP minimum on a car putting down 475 or so at the tire. Good thing I didn't have anyone taking me up on that wager....the results were surprising to say the least.
First off, my last trip to the dyno netted me 477 HP....not quite the 480 I have seen on one or two of my previous best pulls, but right in line with the better of my "average" runs. This was achieved thru LG long tubes and the 3" metal matrix Cats and X-pipe. My former "cat-back" was a Magnaflow system that came with 2.5" pipes that go up and over the rear driveline. By the way, the weight difference between the two is exactly 25 lbs total....not too shabby a savings for guys trying to put their car on a diet.
On to the results....After spending a little time with LS1 edit adjusting the fuel curve (THANKS CHARLIE!), with my cut-outs in the open position, our two best power runs were 481 and 480 back to back with peak torque output on both of them peaking at 439 ft/lbs (huge # for stock displacement). We then proceeded to let the car cool for 10-15 minutes and with no other changes except for closing the cut-outs, running thru the "corked up" factory TI system, the car still put down two back to back runs of 476 HP and 475 HP, with peak torque output at 435 and 432 respectively!! I was shocked to say the least. Obviously necking down to a mere 2" pipe that far back in the system is less of a problem than MANY people would have ever thought. Looks like the GM engineers certainly did their homework....in a car with 100 less HP to the tires, I bet that system would barely cost you 3 HP....Very impressive indeed.
For you guys looking for the ultimate in "stealth" with your current headers/heads/cam cars....you can't beat the factory Ti system, BUT some of you might find it TOO conservative. I like the fact that with my new exhaust configuration you can "have your cake and eat it too" by having the best of both worlds depending on the mood your in.
Anyway....interesting info for all to read!!
Regards,
Tony Mamo
__________________
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.
5 rwhp on a H/C conversion would be tough to "feel". The hp improvement, however, would be more dramatic with a more dramatic combo, like power-adders/more displacement etc. A 750 horse TT would notice more difference than 5 rwhp...
Priest:
I think you'll find that claim is when compared to a stock C5 system. Their recommendation, if going from a stock Z06 system, is the Corsa Ti. Our Random Technology 3" system flows similar #'s to the 2 3/4" Corsa Ti Comp. with mufflers, but weighs more than the stock or Corsa Ti Comp. systems, because it's stainless and not Ti.
At this point, there is no "production" 3" Ti system available, although we may "mule" one for a major company this winter...
"Stay tuned"...
Otherwise, there are torque improvements to be had with an intermediate X-pipe.
"On highly modified Corvette applications LPE has seen the GHL exhaust produce 30 HP more than the competition. All GHL products are built using only the highest quality “American made” T-304 & T-321 stainless steel. All tubes are precision mandrel bent and everything is hand TIG welded by skilled craftsmen in Mesa, Arizona. Factory mounting locations are used wherever possible to insure a quality fit every time. All GHL mufflers & exhaust systems come with a lifetime warranty on workmanship and materials. " - Lingenfelter website
You could be right, but what I got out of it os that GHL's produce the most out of them all. They do sell Corsa'a and they didn't discuss the output on them, just like B&B and Borla, which they sell. I think we should just run open headers anyways..... sounds WAY better
On my Stage 1 TT car, just going from the stock cat-back to the Borla cat-back picked up over 30rwhp... to the point where even with the wastegates adjusted all the way open, boost would still climb too high, creating other problems (detonation). So I put the stock Ti back on.
So the stock setup _is_ restrictive at some HP/airflow level. On a stock, near stock car, its fine. And with a turbo setup being more sensitive to exhaust changes than ANY other engine combo out there, I'd say my case is one that is pretty application-specific.
That being said, I love the stock setup b/c it is so stealth (even quieter than stock with the turbos installed), and with my setup being upgraded to a Stage 2 (650hp) as I type, I'm going to keep the stock Ti setup.
__________________ '02 Z06 (606rwhp/594rwtq)...LPE/21CMC Stage 2 Twin Turbo
'04 SVT Lightning (459rwhp/534rwtq)
'06 300C SRT8
'06 Trailblazer SS "IF YOU CAN BEAT MY TRUCK, THEN YOU CAN RACE MY VETTE!"
Interesting responses, thanks to all. I was considering an exhaust, because SCCA SS autocross rules allow cat backs, but wasn't convinced there was really any reason on a stock motor car...now I'm sure I'll stick with the stock ti for now!
Speaking of exhaust systems, did anyone see the dyno tests on a crate, LS1 in this month's Car Craft? Tests were run on out of the crate, GMPP motor and tested stock LS1 Corvette manifolds, LS1 Camaro manifolds and 1 5/8, 1 3/4 and 1 7/8 TTS (the Turbo Shop) headers. Surprising results, peak and avg. torque and hp numbers were improved minimally with the long tube headers, with the 1 7/8" offering the best peak hp pick up, +6. Of course, this is on a stock motor with headers which may not be optimal, but it does seem to indicate that Chevy not only did a great job on the Z06 system from the catalyst back, but also at the front end!
Priest:
I've been to their site, I've been to their shop (see "gallery", their name is on the 1/4 panel, their staff is in a picture in my "sig"...), and Corsa will outflow any other 2 3/4" system extant. I'm sure you'll find the GHL verbage, while accurate at the time, was some time ago, before Corsa's latest became available. We went 3" RT for the NEXT step, and took a penalty in weight for a modest gain in flow, now, but this winter's 750TT will use ALL that ANY system has to offer.
As I mentioned, we hope to "mule" a 3" Ti system, for both flow and weight considerations, and this site will know those results, as they happen.
"Stay Tuned"...
Last edited by PowerPro01 : 11-18-2004 at 05:39 PM.
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