I've got a '03 Z06 that I plan to take to the road course once or twice a month. I've heard a lot of talk about brakes to use so let me tell you what I've heard and hopefully get a little feedback.
First of all, I don't mind upgrading brakes but $6,000 for new disks and 4 6-piston calipers are out of the question for the amount of racing I am going to do.
That being said, I can think of 4 components to be looked at.
1. Discs: Slotted, drilled, both, none. I have heard that drilled rotors are nice for show but not for go. Other people say get slotted and drilled.
2. Calipers: This is where the $$$$ gets spent as far as I can tell. If you're going to be a weekend warrior on the track, as in drive your ride there, race, then drive home, I'm not sure I can justify the money it takes to get beefier ones.
3. Lines: Pretty much all I've heard is get steel lines.
4. Pads: Most people seem to think the stock Z06 pads are sufficient, others say no.
Rotors: Stock rotors have poor metallurgy and will crack and heat warp if not properly bedded, warmed up and cooled down. And they still might even IF. I recommend although others will argue that having them cryogenically treated will increase the servicable life by 2X. Mine are, and I have not had a crack or warped rotor. Still as the stock rotors are relatively cheap $70-$89, they should be considered consumables. You nay change them after 1-2 track events, they may last a season if you cryo them www.frozenrotors.com
If you go with aftermarket rotors get slotted but NOT drilled ones.,
The stockrotors can have slots ball milled into them.
Pads: For track the best are PFC '01's. For AutoX I recommend the KFP Gold in front and KFP Silver in the rear. Hawk, Carbotech, Porterfield have excellent pads also.
SS Lines: I recommend the Goodridge Lines. Get them from Mallett with -AN fittings.
Fluid: Motul 600 or AP600. I like AP600. On the 1st exchange you need to have a professional bleed and flush the ABS with a Tech II Analyser
Caliper Pistons: Doug Rippie has SS caliper pistons. VB&P rebores and fits Titanium hatted and vented pistons. These keep the heat from transfering to the wheel bearings and other parts.
Extra Cooling Ducts: Doug Rippie has an auxillary cooling duct to aid cooling. You can also fbricate extra ones and extend the stock ducts to the caliper and rotor center for better cooling with flex hose.
Cooling auxillaries: Seine Systems has a nice water injector mister for the brakes. Check out their MPC system.
All the above methods can be employed to bring the stocksystem up to racing spec.
A resonable alternative can be had short of a $6,000 Big Brake System such as AP, Alcon's or Brembo's. Mid range systems are DiLusi and Stop Tech.
BWCB = Bedd'um IN, Warm them UP, Cool them down, Bleed them often. Take care of them and they will take care of you.
Neglect them and kiss your ass goodbye.
Here is what I did, not that I have all, or any, of the answers:
#1. Stock rotors. They are cheap and plentiful. I bought two fronts for spares and have yet to use them. But they are waiting patiently. The other stuff (drilled, maybe even slotted) are not worth the extra cost.
#2. Stock Z06 calipers are fine. Maybe upgrade the pistons, that is about it. Yes, if you go with a new brake system it will be a tad bit better, but the stock system is pretty good.
#3. Stainless lines are what I upgraded to. Do it, they even look nice!
#4. I replaced my stocks padds after they got worn out after three weekends with PFC 01s. The 01s dust a heck of alot, but they do work better.
Also, flush system with upgraded brake fluid, I use Motul. And consider DRM's brake cooling system for the front.
Good driving...DMP
__________________
Kryderacing/Phoenix Performance/Hoosier/WRP Investments #40 SCCA T1 Dodge SRT10 Viper
Other cars: 2007 Chevrolet Tahoe LTZ/2002 Chevrolet 3500 Crew Cab Dualie/2005 Cadillac STS 4
I have learned a LOT from the folks on here-most if not all the advice has been RIGHT ON. Doug Rippie Motorsports has an awsome web site for ordering everything from Motul 600 to pads. I also used gmpartsdirect.com for stock rotors and pads I have only done a few events but I am taking extra rotors/pads with me always
slotted and drilled rotors. 6-piston front and 4-piston rear calipers. get some extra cooling ducts running to them. try to get 14-inch and as wide as you can for the rotors. you can save some money and go with 13 or 13.5 in the rear. look at what the pros do and follow. the larger the rotor the better heat dissipation, the more pistons in the calipers the more even the pad is applied to the rotor. some cars are coming out with 8 piston fronts!! drilled helps the rotor further cool down, and slots allow the gas to be removed. when the pad and rotor are pressed together they create a gas that robs brake feel and performance. i would also hightly advise fabricating more cooling directly to the rotor and pads (the more air the better) also to improve brakeing performance new, stickyer, wider tires are a must. this set up is obviously for a real racer who wants the most complete braking system for the track. good luck. take a look at BREMBO and Bear-Alcon systems. DRM also sells AP brakes. Remember the object of upgrading your brake systm is not nescessarily to improve braking distances but to make you brakes work just as well on the fist lap as the last!!!
You can't go wrong with any/all of the advice given above. If you stay with the stock rotors you might look into getting some from Doug Rippie (I did) they are identical to OEM (except for the black paint) but rather than being made in Brazil they are made in the U.S. and Canada and marketed/packaged by Brembo. They cost less than OEMs from GMpartsdirect as well. The metallurgy might be a bit better too.
I have the VB&P titanium tipped caliper pistons in my stock Z06 calipers. (They are aluminum pistons with titanium, vented tips) I use the PFC 01 front pads and the 99 rears. Rippie brake ducts, Motul RBF 600 fluid, Speedbleeders and Goodridge lines with the rotors mentioned above.
Although larger rotors and calipers will certainly be less prone to fade and fluid boiling, no matter what rotors or calipers you use you will eventually crack or wear them out. It really comes down to cost effectiveness and how much you want to spend.
The real secret is to get as much cooling to the brakes as possible. Bed the pads and rotors in properly. Do a couple warmup and cooldown laps and bleed often. If you do all of the above you'll find even your modified stock brakes will work quite well.
I do remember on my old 01 Z06 that after a particularly warm day at the track, the coating on the inside of my rotors (between the contact surface and the bolts) had blistered and flaked away. I didn't see any harm to the discs themselves but obviously they got really hot.
Originally posted by No Doubt Although larger rotors and calipers will certainly be less prone to fade and fluid boiling, no matter what rotors or calipers you use you will eventually crack or wear them out. It really comes down to cost effectiveness and how much you want to spend.
The real secret is to get as much cooling to the brakes as possible. Bed the pads and rotors in properly. Do a couple warmup and cooldown laps and bleed often. If you do all of the above you'll find even your modified stock brakes will work quite well.
This subject is one of my pet peeves and like a fool I am going to express my opinion. IMHO opinion NO DOUBT has advice that SHOULD be followed unless you are racing for big time cash and the rules allow for bigger rotors and calibers and ever little advantage is necessary. Great write up!!!
Tracking the Z06 at DE’s or Club events is fun, exciting and a great way to learn the potential of the car. When you learn to drive the car well expect to see some very high speeds. It takes a lot of brakes to slow down from 140 – 120. Yet the stock system is up to it.
I am going to reiterate NO Doubt’s point about all rotors cracking. Steel is steel and it all behaves in a similar manner. Yes better metallurgy helps as well as heat-treating (cryogenics). But it is not a 300% percent difference, cannot be. Regardless of the steel’s heat treatment, when you put it through a bunch of heat cycles it can not help but follow the physical laws of nature and start to change its structure to back to what is was before. Unless I was lied to in my materials class at college.
I have talked to a Metallurgist here at work that tracks a vintage car. He shares the same opinion, using only stock rotors. He feels the fancy stuff is a waste of money.
Save your money and put it into track event fees, brake pads, good brake fluid, and brake cooling. Then start looking at track tires and wheels.
Last point, I know a lot of guys who are incredibly fast on the track in a stock Z06.
Originally posted by Aslan 1. Discs: Slotted, drilled, both, none. I have heard that drilled rotors are nice for show but not for go. Other people say get slotted and drilled.
2. Calipers: This is where the $$$$ gets spent as far as I can tell. If you're going to be a weekend warrior on the track, as in drive your ride there, race, then drive home, I'm not sure I can justify the money it takes to get beefier ones.
3. Lines: Pretty much all I've heard is get steel lines.
4. Pads: Most people seem to think the stock Z06 pads are sufficient, others say no. aslan_ia@yahoo.com
1) Either keep the stock ones and provide better cooling for them (once you become advanced) or use something good but not too pricey like Powerslots (we carry those and they are excellent quality metal). I use Baer Eradispeeds and while they cool incredibly well, they stress crack around the cross drills and don't last very long.
2) Keep factory calipers and consider stainless or titanium pistons once you start seeing the rubber boots begin to heat up and crack/dry. You don't need beefier ones.
3) Factory lines are great and work fine. Get stainless ones if you have to change out the calipers or remove them for any reason - that makes the installation very easy. We carry Goodridge lines which we feel are some of the best and are 50 state DOT legal as well.
4) Factory pads are fine if you are a novice or early intermediate level driver, but you may experience fade if you are more aggressive. Check into Carbotech (we carry these) and/or Wilwood (we are going to test these and a few others pretty soon).
Let us know if we can be of any help. We are a supporting vendor here and do track test everything we discuss on the forums here, personally
__________________
Brian A. Marks
PFYC.com - click our banner ad below to visit our C5 Accessories Store, or click here to visit our C6 Accessories Store
Originally posted by Redshift
I use Baer Eradispeeds and while they cool incredibly well, they stress crack around the cross drills and don't last very long.
I have to tell you I respect your open honsety. That is rare in this day and age
I have to tell you I respect your open honsety. That is rare in this day and age
I'm not a salesman. I can tell you what works for me and what doesn't, and why I chose to sell a certain item, but I'm a car guy who happens to have started a company that is now doing very well - and the reason that we are doing very well is due to honesty and customer committment. You can always expect the straight scoop from us, period. There is no other way to live your life than by being forthright and honest, in my opinion.
Well by chiming in late I don't have anything new to add, but I can echo what everyone else has said:
-Stock rotors are adequate for all but the most gruelling conditions
-Stay away from drilled rotors
-DRM ducts (heard some companies have new ducts being developed) are a big help
-SS pistons and lines might help
-Bleed fluid often
-Hawk Blue, PFC 01, or Wilwood J pads will all work nicely
-Break them in properly, cool them properly
My experience is as follows. I run stock calipers. DRM SS pistons, DRM ducts. some 2.5" ducting from the front bumper with NACA duct cut in. PFC 01's and SS lines from DRM. Stock rotors I buy for 55 each shipped. I use PFC fluid. I have yet to have a problem with braking. As stated above this is fine for 20-25 minute sessions. I have no problem braking with anything on the track. The car runs as fast anything I have run into this year. I ran a 1:37 on the long course at Pocono. Most other ZO6's timed run 1:55-2:00+ so I am not sitting still. If I had a ton of money I guess I would buy Alcon's or Wilwwod but don't see the need yet. They say you don't have to bed the PFC 01's but I would. I'll be running the long course at Pocono Monday and Tuesday. Last year I hit 163 with the third session of the year with the GF in the car. With new mods I think near 170 is attainable. What they said when I started learning is the faster you go the less you use the brakes. I thought they were nuts. It is true as you use slicks you carry more speed in the turns and brake less. I'll see how they work soon again at Pocono. Alcon rotors are 300 ea to replace will they last 5X as long as stock? I doubt it. Protect your tie rod ends and control arm boots. They will melt and are expensive. I don't really feel the difference in SS lines either but that was 4 years ago. Air is free take it.
One or two good haults from 140 and stock pads WILL fade!
john shiels
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I have only done a few events but I am taking extra rotors/pads with me always
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