DE Track Experts, I need your advice, please

[jnjboc]

OK, so I am officially bitten by the DE bug. Have done two so far, the latest being Mid-Ohio this past weekend. I'm going back in two weeks.

My first two events I ran on my stock, original pads and brake fluid.

Now I want to get set up right, so here's what I am thinking of doing and am looking for advice.

1. Order Ferodo pads from raceshopper.com. $168-fronts, $128-rears. They told me that they have the highest friction coeficient of any street/track pads made and handle temps above 1000 degrees. I want pads that I can keep on the car all the time and work well in both steet and track applications.

2. Order what seems to be the Z06 track rotor of choice, the Raybestos rotors from NAPA that run about $20 apiece. Everything I read on the forum seems to say that you can pay more but you can't get better for track use......

3. Get some Super Blue DOT4 fluid from raceshopper.com

4. Take everything to a local Corvette specialty shop and have them install everything and bleed the brakes for ~$250. I have no tools or desire to do any of this work myself. No way i am going to trust my absent minded self with installing something that is supposed to slow me down from 145MPH reliably........I want a pro to do it.

so, any thoughts on my choices here and is that a reasonable price for everything I am having them do?

thanks very much for the input.

[Subdriver]

I use the rotors from NAPA which are fine.

I haven't used the pads, so can't comment specifically on them. I use the Carbotech line which I am happy with. A good benefit of the Carbotech line is the dust is non-corrosive and easy to clean. Not sure about the Ferodo pads. Forum vendor pfyc.com carries the Carbotech Panther Plus which is a mild track/street pad rated for use from 150-1250 degrees for $149 front, $129 rear. I've never used this particular pad though. I use their XP10 front, XP9 rear which is a full racing pad.

The ATE Super Blue (DOT 4) has a dry boiling point of 536F and a wet boiling point of 396F. I now use Wilwood EXP 600 Plus which has a dry boiling point of 626F and a wet boiling point of 417F. Cost is similar. And Wilwood is an American company which is always a plus in my book. But, I've never used ATE, so can't comment directly on it one way or another.

Changing out all four rotors and pads and bleeding the brakes takes me about an hour, so $250 seems a little high but it isn't a complete rip-off.

While you are doing brakes, I'd consider a good set of SS lines for safety. I personally use and recommend the Goodridge SS lines with AN connections which cost about $150 for the set of four.

[bbunting]

Subdriver-good points as always.

I used the cheap rotors from Rock Auto-they did't last three sessions at Road America with Hawk Blue pads. Cracked all the way through. Second session at MAM, the rears were cracked all the way. I ended up putting on the DBA rotors from LG Motorsports (bought them from Lou last year at RA-ironic?) I had been running all year, and they are still fine.

I also run the Super Blue fluid, and or Castrol SRF. Any of the mentioned will work fine. Mid Ohio is a fast track, and you need relaible brakes!

I also second the SS lines-gives you a better pedal feel. Welcome to the DE support line...how can I help you????

[corvette dave]

Probably time for a 5 or 6 point harness and at least a harness bar.
I have the bar and belts.
We might be able to work out a deal.
I am in your neighborhood. Send me an email.
I would not worry about SS lines now. Maybe for the future.
Dave

[jnjboc]

glad you guys happened along!!

a couple of things:

1. sub, do you have the part number by chance for the raybestos rotors? I want to ensure there is no mistake when I get these.

2. Never had brakes bled before. How much blue do I need to buy for the folks to properly bleed and refill?

3. I was also looking at the Goodridge SS lines. I will get them also.

4. What are AN connectors on the SS lines? are these Corvette specific brake line connectors that I need to specify when ordering?

5. Good point about the dust. i will check to see if the Ferodo dust will pit or otherwise harm my street wheels.

With valuable tips from BLKZ06 at the track, i was able to get around Mid-Ohio on sub 2 minute runs my first time out last weekend, so I was very happy about that. With this brake upgrade, I hope to improve in two weeks time. I will have more confidence for sure. The braking zone at the end of the back straight is awfully scary on original pads and fluid at 140mph!!! They never did get spongy on me, although very early braking ensued......

thanks so much guys.

[fcar]

Be sure that they can bleed the ABS otherwise changing brake fluid doesn't really mean alot.

[Bob Cooper]

injboc,

Vette Brake Products sells a kit with four slotted rotors, Hawk pads, stainless steel brake lines (AN connectors) and Ford dot 4 fluid for $599. I purchased this kit (except I used Motol 600 fluid) and it has worked very well for me. I now have about 5 DE's on the above mentioned hardware with no problems at all. I would not hesitate to recommend this upgrade.

[Z06Machine]

Cryo treated Power Slots from diversified cryogenitcs. I have five events on these without any issues.

Hawk Blues, Even Hps plus. Be prepared for a very dusty pad. The blues actually seam a tad better than the Hps+. I have yet to find a race pad that does not squeek, again be prepared.

Goodridge lines

Motul RBF 600 - Find a shop with a Tech2 scanner to do it right as it flushes the abs system. This can only be done properly with a Tech 2 ( Gm's own tool for the OBDII systems).

Tires - Hoosier, Goodyear GSCS in stock sizes from Carroll Shelby, Kuhmo, Toyo Ra1, Michellin Pilot Sport Cups ( Expensive but after 4 events still look like they will go two more) In a nutshell this is the best and biggest improvement you can make. No if's and's or buts. Bang for the buck on a road course, about 150 RWHP for about $1,000. High HP cars on stock tires cannot beat you on a road course if you have a good set of rubber.

Align the car for the track. lots of posts here but I like these.

Front Camber -1.0 street -1.5 to -1.8 track
Front Caster 7.0 + 6.8+ - 6.5+
Note: the more camber the lower the caster becomes

Rear Camber -.70 -1.2 to -1.4

Front toe out 1/16 out 1/16 to 1/8
tight tracks use 1/8

Rear toe in 1/16 in 1/16 to 1/8

I like the extreme setting for the tight tracks and the middle setting for the longer fast sweeping tracks.

Also note: the toe out even slight make a big difference in how the car turns in. You would think someone fixed your power steering. I don't drive a ton of street miles 3k per year and always drive toed out 1/16. It just feels more fun to drive. To some on real bad roads it may feel a tad twitchy, in this case dial back to neutral.

Harness bar and Belts. Crow in fullerton california tailors a set to work with the Brey Krause Belt clips. It's nice as you don't have a bunch of extra belt hanging out. A great belt priced like any other. Plenty of harness bars out there figure $295 for a hard bar or $350ish for a Brey Krause. The Krause looks cool, works well, but is heavier. The nice part with the BK is that it has slots for the harness straps so they do not slide on the bar.

Seat - The Z seat sucks. The cheap solution is the Corbeau Forza, you can order the seat tracks so the seat will slide. There are better seats but I have not found one that will work with the stock mounts and is still adjustable. The Forza 2 will not fit, period. Try LG for the Forza.

The seat gives you more confidence and drops laps times as you are not sliding around. Bang for the buck on a road course, Figure about 40 RWHP, for $250.
One other nice part about the Froza is that you sit lower by about 1.5" as it comes or 2.5" without the seat pad ( Velcroed in, so easy to remove) . Very nice for taller drivers or tall torso drivers. It works with the BK belt clips as well.

If you get serious get an oil cooler. The Rad works fine, but the oli temps are scary. Short shift or cool down when you get around 280 degrees. 300ish is the threshold for Mobil 1. Tight tracks will heat up faster, long tracks on 70 degree and lower days are not much of an issue. No need to shift at 6,800 on most tracks. Get in the habit of shifting at 6,000 and the oil will stay cooler and the valve springs will last longer. Save those 6,800 revs for making the Porsche guys cry, you can overtake most anything else out there with the above mentioned.

Finally track time is everything. Find a school and skip the heads, cam and headers until you are running as fast as the guys with more experience. Bang for the Buck about 200 RWHP for about $2,500. It's nice to beat on someone elses car while learning how to read the tracks and find the limits of the car and yourself ( Off Roading ) in safe caged cars with good safety equipment.

[Subdriver]

Welcome to the DE support line...how can I help you????

Brian, that is hilarious!

1. sub, do you have the part number by chance for the raybestos rotors? I want to ensure there is no mistake when I get these.

The boxes don't tend to stay around my house long...
I have two old boxes, 86700 and 86701. Don't even know if those are front or rear. I just walk in a say I have a 2002 Corvette and want all four brake rotors. They look them up in their computer and bring me four rotors. I take them home and use them.

[jnjboc]

Thanks Sub,

I actually found them on an old thread from AU N GL.

Ordered them from rockauto today and they shipped today.

You guys got me scared about buying the cryo. slotted rotors from VBP, so this a.m. I called them first thing to remove them off my order and got the Raybestos.

so i finally decided on Hawk P+ for the front and HPS for the rear. I ordered an extra HPS set for the fronts to swapo out the P+ for the street if they are too loud......

Goodridge SS Lines and super blue are in the mail.

By the way, how do you "bed-in" the pads, as I have read? i will be getting the stuff installed 3 days before Mid-Ohio. What do I need to do during that time to get the pads and rotors to like each other?

thanks again folks.

[David Pintaric]

jnjboc:

when are you going to Mid Ohio?

I am only about 2 hours away, and I'd love to run down there and check things out. Does your group need any instructors? Or someone to warm the tires and brakes "properly" (ahem ) on the track?

[No Doubt]

I'd strongly advise staying away from either the Hawk HPS or Carbotech Panther Plus for the track. I can point you to others who have also used them and would most likely say the same thing.

I would however advise using the Carbotech HP9 front, HP8 rear, or PFC 01 front, PFC 99 rear combinations. If you're on race rubber then the Carbotech HP10, HP9 combination is more appropriate.

[Subdriver]

Originally Posted by jnjboc

By the way, how do you "bed-in" the pads, as I have read? i will be getting the stuff installed 3 days before Mid-Ohio. What do I need to do during that time to get the pads and rotors to like each other?

The pads will probably come with instructions, I know the Carbotech pads do. The procedure for the Carbotechs is 4-6 moderates stops from 60ish to 40ish to warm up the pads followed by 4-6 hard (just shy of ABS) stops from 60ish to almost a dead stop followed by a 30 minute cooldown.

[Subdriver]

Originally Posted by David Pintaric

jnjboc:

when are you going to Mid Ohio?

I am only about 2 hours away, and I'd love to run down there and check things out. Does your group need any instructors? Or someone to warm the tires and brakes "properly" (ahem ) on the track?

David,
Hard to stay away, isn't it.
I went to an SCCA Regional Oct 15-16th at Memphis and instructed at an HPCCC for a guy in a replica AC Cobra 427. Talk about scary HP to weight ratio. He was a great guy and didn't scare me too bad.

I managed to get my car out there with three different students...
When does race season start again???

[jnjboc]

Originally Posted by David Pintaric

jnjboc:

when are you going to Mid Ohio?

I am only about 2 hours away, and I'd love to run down there and check things out. Does your group need any instructors? Or someone to warm the tires and brakes "properly" (ahem ) on the track?

Hi David, BLKZ06 and I are going with Maumee Valley Porsche
Club of America. this will be my third DE with a Porsche club. They are just great folks, and put on a stellar show.

here's the link with the application and a contact if you would like to talk with him directly.

http://www.pca.org/mm/2004_Studnt_Invite.pdf

I know as of a couple of days ago, slots were available. Wouldn't know about instructor positions.

check it out...the more Z06's the better!