I notice you conveniently avoiding answering my question.
In response to yours, yes, it can. You assume, incorrectly, that the roof always collapses in on the occupants. Yes, sometimes the B pillar does collapse, at which time, regardless of the restraint system, everyone in the cockpit is in big trouble, but at other times it doesn't collapse.
For some reason I think we may be arguing apples and oranges, here. You guys keep bringing up roll cages, which by their very nature indicate full on race cars, and I'm speaking of making street cars that are used in the track possibly survivable.
i can answer your question just how you answered mine. you assume that in most cases the roof won't collapse cause the B pillar is strong. if the B pillar doesn't collapse, then it wouldn't matter what kind of restraint you'd use as long as you actually did use whatever restraints. everyone walks away happy to live, pissed to have rolled.
however, the difference between you and I is what is acceptable...."sometimes the B pillar does collapse", "possibly survivable"....maybe you'll take your chances on those sometimes and possibilities. i wouldn't.
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The day the Chevrolet Corvette overalls at the 24 Hours of Le Mans is the day I will buy a brand new Z06.
however, the difference between you and I is what is acceptable...."sometimes the B pillar does collapse", "possibly survivable"....maybe you'll take your chances on those sometimes and possibilities. i wouldn't.
There in lies the rub.. are you suggesting that if the B pillar collapsed on a street car during a rollover then you would not survive with a harness & HANS but would with a 3 point?
however, the difference between you and I is what is acceptable...."sometimes the B pillar does collapse", "possibly survivable"....maybe you'll take your chances on those sometimes and possibilities. i wouldn't.
Then, obviously, you'll never track your street car, which is certainly understandable to me.
This thread seems to have answered my question indirectly. The discussion around the collar has disappeared entirely, which to me means that no one really considers it adequate.
Regarding tracking a street-car, I'm concluding (based on this thread and a lot of other discussion) that cars have become too fast for me to consider them without a reasonable level of safety gear. If serious injuries at DE's haven't already started to increase - I've got to believe that they will when these cars start making it to the track in more volume.
For that reason, I'm going to look to move to tracking a T-1 equiped race car (with a HANS). I can't see going slower being any fun for me - so that route ain't an option.
There in lies the rub.. are you suggesting that if the B pillar collapsed on a street car during a rollover then you would not survive with a harness & HANS but would with a 3 point?
damn, i had a 700 word post all typed out but i'll just say this, if a B pillar collapsed on a street car during a rollover, i would assume both the 3 point driver and the harnessed/HANS driver being injured greatly. to blatantly suggest you'd walk away from a rollover with a 3 point is silly. you're talking about absolutes, convenient for you. this whole argument of harnesses vs HANS vs 3 point vs cage vs no cage won't result in one definite answer, if it hasn't been obvious enough. too many things can happen. people walk away from the most damnest accidents you'd ever seen. others die and leave you puzzled and confused. however, that's not to say that having harnesses and HANS is good enough. you can always do better.
For that reason, I'm going to look to move to tracking a T-1 equiped race car (with a HANS). I can't see going slower being any fun for me - so that route ain't an option.
That is the thing to do. I've looked at 4 of them myself.
after reading about Subdriver's crash, I am seriously looking into the Hans device
can you fill me in on what failed or what caused his crash? thanks. kvn
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MY 2002 z06, lg long tube headers, d1sc procharger, ross racing pistons, lunati rods, msd,comp blower cam. more whp than a weetec. 93 rx7. 1.3L of rotary nightmare, t-78 single turbo. 526 rwhp/ 23 psi of boost. 2600 lbs.
damn, i had a 700 word post all typed out but i'll just say this, if a B pillar collapsed on a street car during a rollover, i would assume both the 3 point driver and the harnessed/HANS driver being injured greatly.
Which is exactly what some of us have been suggesting.
We accept the fact that injury, even serious injury is possible - and if we do not take the final step and fit a roll cage, then we are left using everything upto but excluding the cage.
With that in mind, would it not be a reasonable assumption, that, without a roll cage in the car a 5 point harness and HANS device and helmet would offer more protection than the factory 3 point belt and a helmet in every situatation such a configured car would face.
Head on, side impact, glancing blow, spin out, barrel roll, end over end roll etc.
Because we have already concluded that without a roll cage, any severe rollover situation would be very serious - no matter what restraint sysem was used.
So - this leaves us with evaluating the best of the available body, neck and head restraint systems.
In my amatuer laymans mind, non-rollcage car equiped with a 5/6 point harness, helmet and HANS device would seem to be the safest option.
Unless another option exists? (other than watching the fun from the pitlane)
Yes, I have a T-1 cage installed by Phoenix Perf, with as much of the stock interior cut and fitted back in around it.
Still have power windows, Heat and AC, HUD, headliner, A pillar covers, carpet, console, all the comforts of home.
Only things that gets ditched are door speakers, passenger airbag, and the ducts that connect the blower box to the AC vents in the dash. The AC just blows out behind the dash and finds it's way out. The defrost vents are still intact.
My car gets it's yearly NYS Inspection at the Chevy dealer that sold it to me (with no problemo).
Yes, I have a T-1 cage installed by Phoenix Perf, with as much of the stock interior cut and fitted back in around it.
Still have power windows, Heat and AC, HUD, headliner, A pillar covers, carpet, console, all the comforts of home.
Only things that gets ditched are door speakers, passenger airbag, and the ducts that connect the blower box to the AC vents in the dash. The AC just blows out behind the dash and finds it's way out. The defrost vents are still intact.
My car gets it's yearly NYS Inspection at the Chevy dealer that sold it to me (with no problemo).
I've seen pix of yours that you posted on the other forum. Nicely done.
I've talked to Joe about a couple of his T1's he's had for sale, but I just never pulled the trigger, yet. I'll probably do something by the end of the year. Everytime I come under the bridge and into T.12 at Road Atlanta and I catch a glimpse of the wall at track out, I wish I had a cage.
In my amatuer laymans mind, non-rollcage car equiped with a 5/6 point harness, helmet and HANS device would seem to be the safest option.
i wouldn't assume that. i don't believe a roll cage is last on the list for HPDE, i believe it should be at the top. the faster your car, the bolder the roll cage should be on the list. you do know why SA helmets are rated SA, right? nevermind the nomex lining, you can put that in anything. how about to protect the head of the driver from multiple impacts to the roll cage dang, a roll cage? and some track events require SA helmets for cars that don't have roll cages? funny stuff.
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dang, a roll cage? and some track events require SA helmets for cars that don't have roll cages? funny stuff.
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