I have been argueing the fact that a ZO6 is an excellant auto x car. My friend ( who sells Mini ) says the Mini S would beat a ZO6 hands down in a auto x race. He even says some of his customers have sold thier ZO6 for the mini. What do you guys think?
Anyone that sells a Z06 to get into a mini is out of their mind.
In a tight autocross race(speeds between 30-50 mph) i wouldnt be suprised if a car as light as a mini and as small as mini would out handle a Z06. But we are talking a bout a low speed auto X. The Z has 400 HP and its hard to drive something that powerful in a tight auto x.
Tell your friend if he wants some serious high speed cornering that i will take him for a ride with me and he can tell me if the mini will out handle a Z on a course or not.
With equal drivers and prep, no, the mini will not beat the Z06 on a normal autocross course.
It could if the Z06 driver was terrible and the mini driver was good, or the Z06 was bone stock and the mini was set up including race tires, or the course was just so ridiculous that the Z06 could barely even fit through.
I've been on courses that were set up by guys driving tiny cars like the mini, and there were gates that some cars couldn't physically fit through. In this case of course the mini has an advantage. But the courses that I'm talking about aren't even legal by the SCCA rulebook. I ran on one of these and even though I informed them that it was way too tight, they didn't care. So I just 'straightened' out that section and ran over the necessary cones so I wasn't considered off course. The penalty time was less than I would have lost trying to navigate through that section.
The Mini is a great little car that handles nicely. And I would like to have one, but it can't beat an Elise in autoX. It sure can't beat a Z06.
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In a low speed (tight) autoX it possibly could especially if the course is narrow as well since the C5 is wide but in a high speed course with equal drivers...no way.
I autocrossed my ZO6 AND my MINI S in 2004. I'm going to do the same this year, but running a 2005 MINIS with LSD in STX, vice my old 2004 G Stock car.
The "typical" difference between a representative car running Super Stock and a representative car running G Stock in SCCA events is about 3.5 seconds on a 50 second course, according to the 2005 PAX index. Thus you should expect a ZO6 to beat a MINI S by that amount, each with good but equally skilled drivers. (For an STX MINI S, with coil overs, LSD, and other hardware, the PAX gap relative to Super Stock is about 1.5 seconds.)
I figured my ZO6, which I ran last year on OEM street tires, was about 2 seconds faster than my G Stock MINI S on Kumho V700 r-compounds, based on how I ran relative to a couple of friends. If I had run the Z on r-compounds the difference would have been greater, more like the 3.5 seconds I reference above using the PAX index.
Exception: rain. I can easily believe a MINI S would compete with a ZO6 in the rain, especially on a tight course. I ran the ZO6 twice last fall in the rain, and I hated it: a waste of perfectly good horsepower. An STX MINI S in the rain might well outrun a ZO6 from time to time.
I have raced against a mini s on race slicks, me running stock tires. It was on a race track with tight turns and a 90 mph straight. The vette is 2 Sec faster. If I had R tires and a longer straight the gap would widen considerably.
I have been argueing the fact that a ZO6 is an excellant auto x car. My friend ( who sells Mini ) says the Mini S would beat a ZO6 hands down in a auto x race. He even says some of his customers have sold thier ZO6 for the mini. What do you guys think?
I am guessing, but a friend and I are where this story has come about. We sold our Z06's for Mini's to track. The Z06 was getting really costly to track.
Of course going from a Z06 to a Mini has hit the Texas Mini community as with everything the story gets twisted.
Yes Rain is a great equalizer, but I was at an event were a friend in his Z06 was running really fast. Again he is a good driver. So yes drivers are very important when making car comparsions. At track events I have been able to run faster then some Z06's in the Mini and have had my doors blown off by other Z06's.
The facts for me is I ran faster lap times as did my friend at TWS and MSR with the Z06 then the Mini.
I ran up against a modified Mini Cooper at Blackhawk this summer. His best time was 1:24.7xx & mine was 1:25.3xx. This is on a 2 mile road course. In practice sessions he was quicker thru corners and I couldn't seem to gain much if any, on straights hitting speeds up to 120 MPH.
My Z is stock except for alignment and lowering 5/8" & I run on street tires. I heard the Mini was running on R compound tires and made a lot of supercharger pulley noise, but I was too busy to go look at the car for myself. I believe he drove it from Minnesota, so it is street legal.
I would not count on beating anybody in a Solo II event just because of what the brand the car is. And nothing would surprise me on a high speed road course anymore either.
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My Z06 is a hybrid: It burns gasoline AND rubber
Yep, I think I started this thing, and it is funny how things get pushed out of proportion as the story gets passed on...
What people have said above is true as far as I am concerned. It is not just the horsepower, but also the RWD and the LSD... It makes a big difference to be able to steer with the throttle. You can throw the Mini into the corner and get back on the throttle, but now you are "dragging" the rear of the car around the corner. Also, when the inside front wheel loses grip, you also lose power to the ground due to the lack of a LSD. This will change in 2005 models as a $500 option for the LSD. However, my main reason for converting to the Mini was cost. We have our first baby, and I knew spending $10,000/yr + on tracking my Vette was not the most responsible thing to do.
So, I traded in the Z06 for the Mini. Saved about $22,000 right there. The cost of the parts for the Mini is at least half of the Vette. (You guys know that as soon as anyone hears the word "Corvette" the price doubles... at least)
Add on to that, the Mini does not go through equipment "quite" as fast, so there is additional savings there. Oh yeah, did I say that I was able to add roughly 30 HP to the Mini for less than $200! Much better than the "standard" $100/hp for the Vette.
I absolutely LOVE MY MINI! It is an absolute blast to drive. I would even go so far as to say it is more fun than the Z06 to drive on a daily basis. BUT BEFORE anyone flames me, drive a Mini Cooper "S" first. If you do not think the Mini is a blast to drive, you have a right to your opinion - the FWD is something that takes a little getting used to.
After all of that, I do miss being in the Z06 and blasting by people on the track. With the Mini, I had to learn how to get passed. But, I have yet to put "good" r compounds on it. In the Vette, my standard was the Hoosier DOT R compounds that lasted about 1.5 weekends.
Would I do it again... in a heartbeat! It has been a great experience!
Just remember, no matter what you drive, HAVE FUN, and BE SAFE!!! LOOK AHEAD!
Blast Away!
BTW, I am 7th on a dealer's list for a 2006 Z06, but if it is $65-$75k, I am sure I will not be going down that road.
I have been argueing the fact that a ZO6 is an excellant auto x car. My friend ( who sells Mini ) says the Mini S would beat a ZO6 hands down in a auto x race. He even says some of his customers have sold thier ZO6 for the mini. What do you guys think?
BTW, I know Faron, he is a great guy! I am the person he IM'ed while you were there the other day.
If any of you guys get the chance, come out to Texas World Speedway in College Station this weekend 22nd & 23rd. It is an All Mini Track Weekend DE. I will give you a ride around the track in my Mini. I guarantee you will have a good time and possibly come away with a new respect for a relatively stock Mini.
If this was a regular stock C5 vs a stock Mini S, both with the dreaded stock runflats, it would be too close to call. The Mini costs half the price and has four seats and more storage area and weighs about 500lbs less.
However, the Z06 is just too nice a track car, right out of the box. The only mods I ever did to it was tires, a K&N "filter" - not intake, B&M shifter, and that was ALL. Oh wait, I did have an aggressive alignment (at least as far as stock parts would let you go) the stock "lowering mod" and I tinted the windows.
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This is on a 2 mile road course. In practice sessions he was quicker thru corners and I couldn't seem to gain much if any, on straights hitting speeds up to 120 MPH.
for the Mini. Saved about $22,000 right there. The cost of the parts for the Mini is at least half of the Vette. (You guys know that as soon as anyone hears the word "Corvette" the price doubles... at least)
But, I have yet to put "good" r compounds on it. In the Vette, my standard was the Hoosier DOT R compounds that lasted about 1.5 weekends. 
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