Corvette Z06 Forum banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
153 Posts
A 6 point harness has two "sub" straps that go across the upper thighs rather than one "sub" strap down the middle of the groin. Both types have the "sub" straps to stop you submarining under the lap and shoulder belts when messing up your shiny paint.

The major advantage (apart from comfort) is that (if you are a bloke) in the event of an accident you would likely still be able to have children...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,563 Posts
Have to disagree with that description. Both five points and six points actually only have five attachments to the buckle. They differ in that a five point has a single strap that goes down from the buckle (between the legs) and bolts to something centerline under the driver's seat.

A six point sub strap also hooks to the buckle on the center bottom spot, but has two straps that come out vice one (e.g. in a "V"). The two ends also go down between the legs and bolt to two attachments under the driver's seat, normally one on each rear corner of the seat.

I chose a six point because I liked the symmetry of the mounting. :cheers:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
164 Posts
Subdriver said:
Have to disagree with that description. Both five points and six points actually only have five attachments to the buckle. They differ in that a five point has a single strap that goes down from the buckle (between the legs) and bolts to something centerline under the driver's seat.

A six point sub strap also hooks to the buckle on the center bottom spot, but has two straps that come out vice one (e.g. in a "V"). The two ends also go down between the legs and bolt to two attachments under the driver's seat, normally one on each rear corner of the seat.
Sorry I still have to disagree with that description :p
5 pt goes to the cam then the seat hole then the floor/cage
6pt v style as DJ described
6pt T style has same v style cam hook up point but the straps are on a "T" bar to geive more room to the boys.
6 pt formula style has 2 individual subs going up the seat hole and onto the sholuder belts via d rings on the lap belt
6 pt formula hybrid has 2 individual subs going up the seat hole and onto the lap belts via a cam modified to be fixed to one of the shoulder belts
Then all 6ts can be done without a seat sub hole "parachute style."

Therefore there are 9 kinds of sub setups. The best is a YMMV but I like the 6pt hybrid because it has been shown to give the best lap belt control hence anti sub effect. Parachute or no chute it does not matter to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,563 Posts
fatbillybob said:
Sorry I still have to disagree with that description :p
5 pt goes to the cam then the seat hole then the floor/cage
6pt v style as DJ described
6pt T style has same v style cam hook up point but the straps are on a "T" bar to geive more room to the boys.
6 pt formula style has 2 individual subs going up the seat hole and onto the sholuder belts via d rings on the lap belt
6 pt formula hybrid has 2 individual subs going up the seat hole and onto the lap belts via a cam modified to be fixed to one of the shoulder belts
Then all 6ts can be done without a seat sub hole "parachute style."
Okay... you're answer is more complete. :eek:

To be specific, mine is a "V" style six point harness. :cheers:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
164 Posts
jlucas said:
Don't forget 7 point!! :eek:

Well yes you are correct. The 7th is when you have a formula style 6 point and the 5th pt antisub is put in the traditional place in the cam. Why? Well the 5pt antisub works better in rollovers to control driver movement than pure 6. The 6pt work better than 5 in controling the lapbelt in standard straight line crash thus anti-sub. So you have 7pts for the ultimate control 360 degree sphere. Wanna talk rollcages now??? :thumb:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,491 Posts
In the Z06:

With OEM seats you MUST use a 6 point. The thigh bolster is too long to allow the 5 point anti-sub to work correctly and may be dangerous.

With a racing seat you may use either a 6 point or 5 point. A 5 point being preferable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
344 Posts
I'm set up with Cobra suzuka seats and Schroth Hybrid 3" 6pts.

Very comfortable, with sub straps that are contoured to curve around the "boys".

3 hours + on the highway and no binding or "numb nuts"

I ended up with this belt set becuase it can be secured without the sub straps in place allowing me to still use my kids booster seat if necessary.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
164 Posts
Yes this works but are you as safe as you think you are? IMO harnesses should never be used with stock seats period. The best vette seat I have seen in the "sport seat"? that has the hole in it for the shoulder straps to go through. This is a minimum seat. Then you can parachute a 6 point sub. This is a minium set-up. I think people are really asking for trouble running a 5 point over the front lip of a seat. Also, some people drive a harness on the street but no fully attached...i.e. 4 points. Uner these conditions you are better with the OEM 3 point. Your street safety system are designed together and any change may be as much a detriment as it may be a benefit. Once you change the seat however, all OEM safety system designer variables get thrown right out the window and you are on your own to reengineer your system. It is a very difficult problem. I have huge respect for the GM desingers of this stuff. Remember you are not driving a miata. 150mph speed is easily atainable in the Z06 just by point and squirt. No skill involved in that. You need to have a safety system capable of handling those kinds of speeds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
164 Posts
SilverBulletZ said:
Can you use 6-pt. harness' without having a split seat?

You can use anything...problem is it wise to use anything. IMO to use a harness wo a proper seat is dangerous. A harness is part of a safety system which includes a proper 5 or 7 hole seat. In the vette case the harness will sit on your shoulder and in a crash when your body moves forward the belts will want to slip off your shoulder due to body compression and the seat widening by the shoulder bolter area. You need the hole for shoulder belt retension. So IMO NO you should not run harnesses with stock vette seats and the vette sport seat with the single hole is just barely acceptable. There are no bolsters for support, no lap belt contol holes, no sub hole, no individual should belt hole, it articulates, it is springy.

Here is my racing shell. 1/4" plate aluminium totally solid, head restraints, shoulder restraints, and hip bolster for full containment, built in back support, side leg bolsters are 9" tall, 3 sub holes, lap and shoulder holes, all custom made to my skinny body. It weights a ton... 21lbs and my carbon omp racing shell I am dropping to use this sh!t brick house is only 8 lbs! Overkill???yes but I am over 100mph alot of the time and I am not a pro driver so I make stupid mistakes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
602 Posts
Actually FatBillyBob does pretty darn good out on the track... his safety points are well taken.

:yeadog: :yeadog: :yeadog:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Actually I was asking because I already have plans to get some Corbeau Forza seats but they do not have the split leg design. Am I better off with just a plain 5-pt or will a 6-pt work even though the anti-sub belts won't have a groove to sit in between my legs?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
164 Posts
SilverB,

I think I misunderstand you. When you say split seat you mean articulating seat back? I think you mean to run the subs parachute style though the split like a true formula style. If so yes you can do this with a split seat or you can use your stock seat and basically mount the subs to the lap belt anchors and then sit on the subs and pull them up through your legs parachite style. This is not ideal and I have not seen the seat you talk about but it is done. It is better than running 5pts improperly up infront of the seat bolster. May clubs will let you run 5 points is some very questionable ways with some very questionable mountings. I know that people just want to run their cars and the only way to really be fast is either be naturallu good or maybe not think about crashing. Me...I'm a 45 Y/o chicken who always thinks about crashing when I am on the track. I'm not fast, I do wheel to wheel race groups when I can and I have a damn fun time doing it. The bottom line is that people be aware of what safety compromises they make and assume those risks if they choose. The real bummer is when someone gets hurt and then someone else says well you should not have mounted your harness that way.... So in the end I think that you should only use a 5pt or better harness with a seat that has lap belt holes, two shoulder belt holes, and at least one sub hole, and no articulating back. Finally, for those who still don't think a proper seat is of any value, I'll bet you dinner you will be faster in a proper seat vs. the stock Vette seat because you can gently grip the wheel and feel the car and the road instead of death gripping the wheel trying to prevent your butt from sliding around. That alone is good for a few tenths just as much as a cool Doug Rippie whatchamathing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Yes, wrong thing. No biggie. I was talking about having a split bottom part of the seat (individual "legs" if you will), not a reclining seat. Basically having a slit to put the 6-pt sub belts through.

http://www.soloracer.com/corbeauforza.html
Linky to the seat I'm thinking about purchasing. I'm no wheel-to-wheel racer, but my small light frame does not go with the much wider, non-bolstered sides of the standard vette seat.

With this seat what would be the best suggestion for a belt setup?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
164 Posts
SilverBulletZ said:
Yes, wrong thing. No biggie. I was talking about having a split bottom part of the seat (individual "legs" if you will), not a reclining seat. Basically having a slit to put the 6-pt sub belts through.

http://www.soloracer.com/corbeauforza.html
Linky to the seat I'm thinking about purchasing. I'm no wheel-to-wheel racer, but my small light frame does not go with the much wider, non-bolstered sides of the standard vette seat.

With this seat what would be the best suggestion for a belt setup?
The website you fingered says that is is 5 pt compatible. So you have to go with manfg. recs unless you call them and they say 6pt is O.K.. I cannot see the sub area but I assume that means it has a hole. Even a slit somewhere in the usual 5pt area is still a hole so my thinking is it will be fine. Now my fancy custom seat has a 5 pt hole and 2 fancy sloted angled 6pt sub holes. This ads more "correct" geometry to the 6pt sub action. It is required...no. In fact one of the other most popular racing HANS seats the Recaro spg pro I think only has the 5pt hole but this seat can be used with a 6pt harness. You'll have to check on that I'm 90% sure. But that said 99% of the 6 pts I have seen are run through the 5pt hole. 1% of sportcars I see use parachute formula style. I have never seen my style 6pt dedicated holes in anything but a full NASCAR pro car. I have used 5pts for years and just did so two weeks ago. I now understand 6pts is a better way to go so I am converting my car as my cage and seat gets converted this summer. I think the real question is does the seat fit you. I say sit in the seat and go for a tight fit. Sometimes we smaller frame people can't get a good plastic seat fit. But we can buy aluminium and sometimes bend them in key areas for a tighter fit. I know that driver position and retnetion does help laptimes. Sliding around hitting a seat's side bolsters is only a little bit better than the stock vette seat. Tight bolsters that hold you in are the way to go. You can pad up some plastic seats for a tight fit but you need to look at the contruction of the seats. Also, that steel plastic combo may be really heavy. Less weight is free horsepower. If you are small watch the height of the shoulderbelt holes relative to your shoulder height. You want the top of your shoulder to be about 1/3rd to 1/2 the way up from the bottom lip of the holes. This way you get just about to the bottom upon belt tightening and have room if one day you decide to use a HANS device as that adds about 1 inch to your shoulder height and 3 piece firesuit with epaulets on the shoulder another 1/4" or so. If you are short and your shoulder top is right at the bottom of the holes you will not get the best action of the seat/belt combo in a crash as the shoulder belt will want to compress beyond the belt holes but will be restricted. Go sit in the seat you want to buy. That seat says up to 38" waist driver. That is a big guy IMO. Also, if you use a non-full containment seat consider using sidenets. These help retain you as typical race seats tend to spill you out in a crash. They are very cheap and can be easily removed in a street/track car.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top