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Discussion Starter #1
Let's assume that 500 rwhp is enough on the stock bottom end (I know you can go higher).

My question is which of the following is the fastest:

a) 500 rwhp twin turbo
b) 500 rwhp positive displacement supercarger
c) 500 rwhp centrifugal
 

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If it were me? I'd go for the intercooled magnuson.

Nice street package that offers a 36K mile/36month extended drivetrain warranty.

JMO
 

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hey neighbor, thats a $ell of question, very interesing :jammin:

My theory for street cars is that N/A power is the fastest, but thats not a option you left me so this is a tough one...

I dont think that can be answered do to many variables, such as what gearing used, what tires, what cam, where does the final tune make power ect.

so Im going to assume its a stock gearing, stock tires :eyes: , stock cam, and the tune is your average power brand of the applications with the FI...

theres still one more question at hand, faster where?

from a stand still I think all options are all on the driving, with stock street tires I think all three will be tricky, maybe the centrifical since it makes more power as RPMS climb therefor you have room to get off the whole without spinning tremendous, the roots blower will make more mid range power then the centrifucal blower, and I believe the turbo will make more power all around, so If I was to pick one it would be the turbo, because turbos make mad Toruqe and bottom end like the roots type blower and they make alot of top end hp while in boost, so turbo it is, Im pretty sure theres no anwer for this anyways but none the less

TURBO :jammin:
 

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Actually I still pick one not on your option list, Single Turbo, you can make more power from a single versus a twin plus less weight so maybe it would be the fastest one :cheers:
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
COUTO1981 said:
hey neighbor, thats a $ell of question, very interesing :jammin:

My theory for street cars is that N/A power is the fastest, but thats not a option you left me so this is a tough one...

I dont think that can be answered do to many variables, such as what gearing used, what tires, what cam, where does the final tune make power ect.

so Im going to assume its a stock gearing, stock tires :eyes: , stock cam, and the tune is your average power brand of the applications with the FI...

theres still one more question at hand, faster where?

from a stand still I think all options are all on the driving, with stock street tires I think all three will be tricky, maybe the centrifical since it makes more power as RPMS climb therefor you have room to get off the whole without spinning tremendous, the roots blower will make more mid range power then the centrifucal blower, and I believe the turbo will make more power all around, so If I was to pick one it would be the turbo, because turbos make mad Toruqe and bottom end like the roots type blower and they make alot of top end hp while in boost, so turbo it is, Im pretty sure theres no anwer for this anyways but none the less

TURBO :jammin:

Good point. Assume everything is stock, and that traction is equal.

I say positive displacement. Turbos have too much lag for my liking. I think it comes down to which FI has more area under the Torque curve.
 

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Turbos are great for building big boost but with stock internals on the motor...Its of little value...

A nice reliable supercharger package makes a lot of sense...

I'd go for the one that has the most reliable setup ...with the least amount of headaches once installed...

I'd want the most developed system for daily driving....

I'd drive over to the Vette doctors in Amityville Long Island NY and have them install one around xmas when they have often tended to have a special that offers the intercooled magnuson installed with painted hood and tuning for 8 grand...

I'd have them drive me over to the nearby airport( I think its macarther airport/minutes away) ...fly home for a few bucks....and when the call comes in the cars ready....

Fly back...

FWiw..if ECS is closer and you don't mind paying a few dollars more...They do nice work too..
 

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rz01 said:
Good point. Assume everything is stock, and that traction is equal.

I say positive displacement. Turbos have too much lag for my liking. I think it comes down to which FI has more area under the Torque curve.

turbo lag hardly exist anymore these days, its really in the tune, turbo can actually can make more power under the torque curve, the next one would be the roots type blower, maybe for power under the torque curve Twin Turbo would be the most of the three...

so my answer Twin Turbo
 

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rz01 said:
I think it comes down to which FI has more area under the Torque curve.
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner, although I would argue that is "area under the HP curve". If torque monsters were it, then we'd all be putting big turbo-diesels in our Vettes. You don't race people from 1000rpm to 3000rpm. ;) That's also why the N/A setup could be considered with the others...but as has been mentioned, it usually will take a properly matched rear gear ratio to do it.

I would say if you're comparing compressors of _equal_ efficiency and airflow potential... its positive displacement. Quite often, the compressors are _not_ equal. For instance, the M90 Eaton blower used for the Magnacharger setup. If you had a self-imposed redline of 4500rpm, then it would be quicker than the centri and turbo setups most of the time. But we don't. We can spin the motors safely to 6500...so it gets passed up pretty quickly past 4500.

Then the other factor is traction. For a street car you _can_ have too much bottom-end TQ. Something that hits a little softer may allow you to have adequate traction when you stomp on the throttle, yet still provide much more power than stock, and then as power rises dramatically in the higher rpms, you're still hooked up.

That's why there is not always "one size, fits all". :)
 

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Couto is correct... properly sized twins + large displacement motor (346ci would be considered pretty large by today's standard in performance cars) = no noticeable turbo lag.

Get a ride in an LPE TT car. You'll understand. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #10
WA 2 FST said:
Couto is correct... properly sized twins + large displacement motor (346ci would be considered pretty large by today's standard in performance cars) = no noticeable turbo lag.

Get a ride in an LPE TT car. You'll understand. :D


I always enjoy your input and reading your posts. I know what you are saying about the LPE TT. I've been in one, although not the stage II package. I would love to see what the stage II package feels like, and possibly a dyno sheet.
 

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rz01 said:
My question is which of the following is the fastest:

a) 500 rwhp twin turbo
b) 500 rwhp positive displacement supercharger
c) 500 rwhp centrifugal
The TT will be the fastest by far.

The MagnaChargers don't put up at the track from what I've seen (flame away, I couldn't care less. I've seen several Lingenfelter MagnaCharged cars at the track - none faster than 12.6).

Option C, is a good contender as the linear pull is helps traction.

Mark
 

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mdhmi said:
The TT will be the fastest by far.

The MagnaChargers don't put up at the track from what I've seen (flame away, I couldn't care less. I've seen several Lingenfelter MagnaCharged cars at the track - none faster than 12.6).

Option C, is a good contender as the linear pull is helps traction.

Mark
Mark, my only rebuttle to this is "where did we see the Magnacharger as the only choice of positive displacement blowers?"

I agree with you _if_ we're using the M90 Eaton blower as our only option. But a more efficient positive displacement blower could make more average HP/TQ across the curve than a TT. The M90 cannot. I've seen dyno sheets that back up exactly what you're saying. :)

If a twin-screw blower kit ever comes out for these motors that is sized appropriately... watch out!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
mdhmi said:
The TT will be the fastest by far.

The MagnaChargers don't put up at the track from what I've seen (flame away, I couldn't care less. I've seen several Lingenfelter MagnaCharged cars at the track - none faster than 12.6).

Option C, is a good contender as the linear pull is helps traction.

Mark

I agree with you here. I took WA 2 FASTS advice and compared an LPE stage I turbo to a 500rwhp Mag. The Torque up high on the LPE TT is MUCH stronger.
 

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rz01 said:
I always enjoy your input and reading your posts. I know what you are saying about the LPE TT. I've been in one, although not the stage II package. I would love to see what the stage II package feels like, and possibly a dyno sheet.
I have a dyno sheet here, but no scanner. I could post incremental HP/TQ at various rpms if you'd like and you could plot the graph for yourself. Would that help?

I went from a Stage 1 to a Stage 2. If someone is after 500rwhp, the Stage 1 TT is tough to beat. I primarily did the Stage 2 for the forged bottom end (as funds allowed), and picked up 70rwhp/80+rwtq in the process due to being able to run more boost with the lower CR motor.
 

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Another thing to consider (with relation to the Mag) is heat soak. I know of what I speak since I have owned 2 SVT Lightning pick-ups which use an intercooled Eaton M112 blower (larger than the blower used for the C5 setup). Air charge temps go up considerably if the heat exchanger is not adequate for the water/air intercooler.

This is _very likely_ one huge reason for poor times at a 1/4 mile drag strip. Once that intercooler isn't doing an efficient job, power will drop like a rock.

That's why one mod done on the Lightnings and Cobras is an aftermarket heat exchanger and puller fan. I have one... it works. :) The Mag kit for the Vette could probably stand for an upgrade in that area as well, especially during the summer months if you're going crawling through the staging lanes.
 

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My comments were based on what is available for general purchase for the C5. The Maggies do fine on the dyno, just not at the track.

Whatever the reason, the answer to the original question is TT's - hands down. :cheers:

Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
WA 2 FST said:
Mark, my only rebuttle to this is "where did we see the Magnacharger as the only choice of positive displacement blowers?"

I agree with you _if_ we're using the M90 Eaton blower as our only option. But a more efficient positive displacement blower could make more average HP/TQ across the curve than a TT. The M90 cannot. I've seen dyno sheets that back up exactly what you're saying. :)

If a twin-screw blower kit ever comes out for these motors that is sized appropriately... watch out!
WA 2 FST,
I was generic in my options in regards to the description of "positive displacement" to include the possiblility of a C5 twin screw. You picked up on that, Cool!

It will be interesting to compare a 500 rwhp twin screw to a 500 rwhp twin turbo. stock c5 342 gearing still uses alot of mid-range power when going through the gears(i.e. 4000-5000 rpm), where a twin screw shines. I will be anxious to see what happens after 5000 rpm.
 

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IMO "A" is the clear winner. A 500 rwhp twin turbo starts producing big time HP/TQ at much lower RPM's that either B or C. :cheers:
 

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