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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Brake Pad Experiment at Road America II

As promised in a previous thread, I tested out the Hawk HP +'s for five 25 minute sessions yesterday at Road America in Elkhart Lake, WI.

Conditions: 60 dropping to mid-40s degrees, windy, dry.

As I am still considered a novice, my driving style, while I no longer need an instructor, is not that of an aggressive, experienced driver.

My lap times dropped (from high 2.50s to low 2.50s high 2.40s) with the Hawk HP +'s versus the HPS's. I was able to brake later/deeper into the curves and turns. Yep, lots of gun-metal gray brake dust, but very well modulated control.

While they are noisy on the street, they work just fine.
 

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Those seem to be good lap times for a "novice". My guess is that you would be a lot faster with better pads, given the list of mods you have on your car. How fast are you going thru the kink?

I ran all the Hawk pads on my 96 GS. The HPS pads didn't seem even equal to the stock OEM pads. The HP+ were OK for a while at Blackhawk & GingerMan, but were scary at RA. Hawk Black was a little better but a lot more dust. The Hawk Blue gave me a lot of confidence for repeated hard braking at RA with not a lot more dust. From that point on I ran Blue at BFR & GM too.

When I got the Z06, I took Subdriver's recommendation and bought Carbotech XP9/8. (The stock pads seemed about comparable to HP+ in performance & dust.) The Carbotech pads dusted a little bit and seemed stand up to really hard braking at RA last fall. I ran mid 2:40 times with totally stock car & doing heavy braking before kink. My BFG KD fronts were on their third season and not gripping real well.
 

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UstaB-GS549 said:
Those seem to be good lap times for a "novice". My guess is that you would be a lot faster with better pads, given the list of mods you have on your car. How fast are you going thru the kink?

I ran all the Hawk pads on my 96 GS. The HPS pads didn't seem even equal to the stock OEM pads. The HP+ were OK for a while at Blackhawk & GingerMan, but were scary at RA. Hawk Black was a little better but a lot more dust. The Hawk Blue gave me a lot of confidence for repeated hard braking at RA with not a lot more dust. From that point on I ran Blue at BFR & GM too.

When I got the Z06, I took Subdriver's recommendation and bought Carbotech XP9/8. (The stock pads seemed about comparable to HP+ in performance & dust.) The Carbotech pads dusted a little bit and seemed stand up to really hard braking at RA last fall. I ran mid 2:40 times with totally stock car & doing heavy braking before kink. My BFG KD fronts were on their third season and not gripping real well.
You brake at the kink?

Sal
 

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UstaB-GS549 said:
Your kidding me... right?
No, I'm not. It was a serious question. I just get off of the gas to let the car settle and then take the kink. I never brake there, nor have I been taught to brake there. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

Sal
 

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I just let up on the gas a little in 3rd coming into the kink at about 90-95mph then gradually give it more gas through the kink shifting into 4th heading out of the kink and go about 135 mph before breaking into Canada Corner. The kink is a smooth drive through turn with no braking needed unless you are coming into it too fast. When I rode with Lou Gigliotti in his 2000 FRC, he gave it gas all through the kink at about 120 mph :eek: :thumb:

Bob
 

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I'm at about 75-80 thru the carousel and up to 120-125 just before the kink. I don't have enough stick on street tires go thru at those speeds, even breathing the throttle.

The car might make it at around 100, but I have a tough time not scrubbing off too much speed and usually am down to 85-90 at the entrance. I'm back to 135 going to Canada corner.

I have run flat out thru carousel to Canada before, but it was on race tires with a car that had a lot less horsepower.
 

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The kink braking thing caught my attention. I guess it all depends on how much speed you are carrying out of the carousel (and of course what kind of tires). When I was there in April I was catching 4th gear at 6500rpm at carousel exit. Yes, I did make practice of tapping the brakes right before turn in to the kink basically to set the car and scrub a little bit of speed. I can honestly say that the car needed this tap to complete the turn in a relatively safe manner. The risk / reward factor just doesn't add up there as we all know what happens to people who don't "respect the kink".
 

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The risk / reward factor just doesn't add up there as we all know what happens to people who don't "respect the kink".
There is enough paint on the Armco at the kink exit to support that statement!

Last fall was the first event that I attended that someone did NOT go off in the kink.

Someone said that the BMW or Audi clubs had a 100 mph limit in the kink and were enforcing it with radar.
 

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I had a nice E36 M3 go wide into the kink right in front of me last Oct. I remember thinking that isn't going to work as he ran out of road and smacked the wall. The only funny thing was they black flagged me and insisted I was the one that went off, the lack of damage or dirt on the car didn't seem to faze them at all!
 

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I had a nice E36 M3 go wide into the kink right in front of me last Oct. I remember thinking that isn't going to work as he ran out of road and smacked the wall. The only funny thing was they black flagged me and insisted I was the one that went off, the lack of damage or dirt on the car didn't seem to faze them at all!
I read a quote from Bobby Rahal the other day saying he liked tracks like Road America because they ask something back from a driver. I believe that "respecting the Kink" is one of those things the track asks for.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
"Respect the Kink"

To the question: "How fast are you going thru the kink?" I frankly cannot say.

Sling-shotting out of the Carousel, I'm doing about 75-80 mph at the orange cone/black patch in 4th gear. I know that this is considered slow, but the Pilot Sports are not breaking away nor talking to me either, but are still well planted.

I then wind out in 4th and tap the brakes at the second cone before the kink and begin my drift through it.

Frankly, I'm so busy (and green - hence the "novice") I do not even register the HUD data.

To date, no spins or offroad excursions. :)
 

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UstaB-GS549 said:
There is enough paint on the Armco at the kink exit to support that statement!

Last fall was the first event that I attended that someone did NOT go off in the kink.

Someone said that the BMW or Audi clubs had a 100 mph limit in the kink and were enforcing it with radar.
Yes. That's the Windy City Bimmer's club. They used to put a speed limit at the kink and use a radar gun. Now, they use that chicane right before the Kink that they use for the Superbike races.

I mostly let up before the kink or at most, slightly tap the brakes, but I never treat the kink like a heavy braking zone.

Sal
 
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