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They just couldn't bring themselves to say it handles as good as a Porsche. I wonder what exactly it would take to get them to admit a Chevy is a better all around car?
 

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Zoomin said:
They just couldn't bring themselves to say it handles as good as a Porsche. I wonder what exactly it would take to get them to admit a Chevy is a better all around car?
Maybe if it were a second or two quicker than the Porsche in the quarter, pulled .1 more lateral Gs, stopped 10 or 20 feet shorter, and was $10K or $20K less.

Oh, wait...
 

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Clearly, the new C6 Z06 is in a league of its own when it comes to performance for a relatively inexpensive sports car. For only $70k, Chevy has built a car that kicks ass over cars that cost twice the price. That's very impressive!

However, I wouldn't doubt the overall handling is still not on par with the competition, specifically the 997S and GT3. I have driven several C6 Z51 cars and they all had lots of cornering grip, but had a disconnected steering feel that lacked precision. Chevy apparently spent more of their development dollars on engine development of the Z06 versus chassis refinement, which is probably more important to the average Corvette buyer. I'm sure Chevy added some much needed character into the C6 Z06 chassis, but not enough to surpass the competition.

It's clearly the fastest, just not the best handling.

Why is this so hard to believe?
 

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Cerberus said:
I have driven several C6 Z51 cars and they all had lots of cornering grip, but had a disconnected steering feel that lacked precision.
I agree with Cerberus. There is more to handling than just raw cornering grip. The Z is really very good, but there are better cars, even ones that won't quite out-corner it.

They also tend to cost more, with a few notable exceptions.
 

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Cerberus said:
It's clearly the fastest, just not the best handling.

Why is this so hard to believe?

The question is why do you so readily believe this without having driven the car? Even if the new z06 has inferior "feel" it still might handle better, then the real feel is how the porsche guy "feels" when he loses his pink slip.
 

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Cerberus said:
It's clearly the fastest, just not the best handling.

Why is this so hard to believe?
Because "best handling" is completely and utterly SUBjective.

Unless you are talking about "highest G forces" in which case
the Z tromps the Porsche.. completely.

Sort of like the question "Is this chili too hot"?

My answer would always be "heck no, add more Habanero",
but others might be rushed to the hospital.

(If it's not known, I'm a severe chile head - Mo Hotta Mo Betta)

:D :D :D

Subjective measurements mean ZERO in the real world.

Magazines use them to justify theirs (and their readers) mass
of preconceived notions.

Jim
 

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blackc6 said:
The question is why do you so readily believe this without having driven the car? Even if the new z06 has inferior "feel" it still might handle better, then the real feel is how the porsche guy "feels" when he loses his pink slip.
I was only making an assumption in regards to the new Z06's handling feel. No, I have not driven the new Z, so I was not making a qualified statement, just a guess. However, I did not read much in the technical bulletins and marketing info from Chevy that they were going to substantially improve the suspension feel in the Z. I arrived at my opinion from my previous experience with the standard C6 and previous ownership of two 03' Z06s.
 

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Jim Conforti said:
Because "best handling" is completely and utterly SUBjective.

Unless you are talking about "highest G forces" in which case
the Z tromps the Porsche.. completely.

Sort of like the question "Is this chili too hot"?

My answer would always be "heck no, add more Habanero",
but others might be rushed to the hospital.

(If it's not known, I'm a severe chile head - Mo Hotta Mo Betta)

:D :D :D

Subjective measurements mean ZERO in the real world.

Magazines use them to justify theirs (and their readers) mass
of preconceived notions.

Jim
I agree that handling is a very subjective matter when it comes to automobiles. Generally, the only things you can objectively measure are steady state cornering (skidpad) and slalom.

In regards to braking, there are also subtle differences in how the brakes feel versus purely statistical stopping distances. It is my opinion that my previous Z06s although putting up short stopping distances, felt mushy and vague compared to the various P-Cars I have owned and driven. This goes for the C6's I have driven as well. However, I have high hopes with the new Z's 6/4 piston brake package. Finally, Chevy has designed brakes that hopefully match its stout engine.

However, I disagree that subjective measurements are meaningless in the real world. Personally, I think European cars (specifically BMW, Porsche and Ferrari) generally have more character in the way they feel in various aspects, than their domestic and Japanese competition. These intangle items are important in my purchasing decisions.

Also, I would not say that C&D's 0.98 skidpad figure tromps the GT3. However, in a straight line it surely will stomp the GT3.

Seriously, how often are you guys racing a 911 or 360 for pink slips?

With that said, I had a deposit on a new Z06 (number 2 slot)for the past 8 months, but recently changed my mind and bought something different.

I think the C6 Z06 offers amazing performance for little money. More than likely, I will probably locate a used one in a year or so and twin turbo it, which I originally planned when I placed the deposit. It will probably take two years for a TT kit to be developed anyways.

BTW,
Are you the same Jim Conforti that produced software upgrades for BMWs? If so, I was very pleased with your product for my previous M3s and various 3 series. On my M5 I went with Dinan and his various mods. I wish I could justify his S3 supercharger package. However, I will probably trade in my e39 for the new e60 V10.

Take care and watch out for those Habaneros.
 

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Cerberus said:
Also, I would not say that C&D's 0.98 skidpad figure tromps the GT3. However, in a straight line it surely will stomp the GT3.

.
No, but I would say that 1.05 skidpad figure that MT got does tromp the GT3, as well as any other Posche.. :ity:
 

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The pictures do not do the new Z justice . Just returned from Carlsile, and the Z up close is awsome , can even overlook the fastback window now that I understand why . Thank you for heads up.

GASH EB 02
 

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Zlicious said:
No, but I would say that 1.05 skidpad figure that MT got does tromp the GT3, as well as any other Posche.. :ity:
Okay, one out of two ain't bad.

I give a huge thumbs up to Chevy for producing an outstanding sports car with near supercar performance at an affordable price that the masses can enjoy.

A friend of mine is expected to get his new Z next month, so I will see first hand how the car feels overall. I'm sure we will perform some roll ons as well, which I expect he will have the advantage.

However, IMHO I still believe cars such as the GT3 and 360 Stradale will be more entertaining and engaging to drive than the Z06, even being passed by it on the straightaways.

Just my two cents.
 

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GASH said:
The pictures do not do the new Z justice . Just returned from Carlsile, and the Z up close is awsome , can even overlook the fastback window now that I understand why . Thank you for heads up.

GASH EB 02
I think Zlicious has been saying this all along

I got to see one of these soon.
I am in love with just the picture,
so I can't imagine seeing one.
 

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Cerberus said:
sports car with near supercar performance at an affordable price that the masses can enjoy.

However, IMHO I still believe cars such as the GT3 and 360 Stradale will be more entertaining and engaging to drive than the Z06, even being passed by it on the straightaways.

Just my two cents.
A few corrections..

1) 0-150 in 17.5 secs, 1/4 mile in [email protected], and 1.05 on the skidpad is not "near" supercar performance. Rather IT IS supercar performance and exceeding a few supercars at that- For ex, Murcielago, Diablo, etc.

2) You said the GT3 and 360 will be more fun to drive. Maybe so, I haven't driven the new Z, GT3, or the Stradle. But I will tell you one thing I do know. That is, it wont just be passing them on the straights like you mentioned, rather, it will be BLOWING by them on the track as well.

just a fyi..;)
 

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Frankly, showing up at a PCA Driver's Ed with this car would be like showing up to a flintlock pistol duel with an M-16. :jammin:

GM should buy Car and Driver from Hatchette-Fillipachi using a Swiss company with no obvious connection to GM, replace the editors with some sympathizers, and fix their PR problem on all cars, from Cobalts to Corvettes.

"Image is everything." It's not, really, but today it is very important, and GM's image needs help. Doubly so when they build a car like this and don't win universal kudos from the auto journaleests.
 

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Cerberus said:
Okay, one out of two ain't bad.


However, IMHO I still believe cars such as the GT3 and 360 Stradale will be more entertaining and engaging to drive than the Z06, even being passed by it on the straightaways.

Just my two cents.
This certainly has been true in the past--and not just an opinion among magazine reviewers. Several driving instructors race drivers and development engineers I have talked all prefer the immediate response and dynamics of the porsches and ferraris to the viper/vette cars that have in many cases superior performance numbers but less balance or feedback--also didn't Millen or some other professional driver just recently choose as his favorite in a sports car comparison the 997 Porsche over the Viper and c6/z51 that were both faster and he hadn''t considered himself a Porsche guy?

I have loved my viper and my 04 z06 and ironically am disappointed in my turbo X50 as it seems to lack the immediacy of other Porsches I have owned and driven--four wheel drive, electronic interference all leading to a subdued, slightly sterile feel even though it is significantly quicker than any of the other porsches I have owned. A computer controlled rocket but not very engaging for me.

I am actually looking forward to changing to either an american car, new porsche other maybe older European car to get back that delicacy and balance near (generally not at!) the limit that I used to have regardless of performance numbers.

Finally the numbers in the magazines vary quite a bit as do test conditions. The vette looks like it will have an edge in acceleration over the Viper, but so far it appears inconclusive in the breaking and absolute grip department. However it turns out with the numbers of the viper/vette/new turbo, I will bet in a large number of road courses it will be the driver more than the car at the amateur level that determines the outcome. All these cars have more potential than I could hope realistically to tap at the absolute limit consistently and so in the end feeling balance and feedback will matter--I hope the vette shines in these areas as much as it excells in all others--it makes for a lot of easy decisions!
 

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Having driven a regular Porsche 911 and a Twin Turbo 911, I really did not think they handled that great at all. The regular 911 felt downright scary when pushed hard. And they both had a very choppy ride. The new Z06 sets a new standard for street-drivable sports cars.
 

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Zlicious said:
A few corrections..

1) 0-150 in 17.5 secs, 1/4 mile in [email protected], and 1.05 on the skidpad is not "near" supercar performance. Rather IT IS supercar performance and exceeding a few supercars at that- For ex, Murcielago, Diablo, etc.

2) You said the GT3 and 360 will be more fun to drive. Maybe so, I haven't driven the new Z, GT3, or the Stradle. But I will tell you one thing I do know. That is, it wont just be passing them on the straights like you mentioned, rather, it will be BLOWING by them on the track as well.

just a fyi..;)
In regards to supercars, I was referring to cars such as the C-GT and Enzo, but I can see the terms used for various Lambos as well. I am splitting hairs here, so I will concede.

In regards to the pace the Z06 blows by the GT3 and Stradale, I'm sure it will be fast enough to put a frown on their faces.

There is no doubt the C6 Z06 is undisputed bang for the buck champion in the high performance sports car category.

Congrats to Chevy for raising the performance bar! :thumb:
 
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