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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I think the car will come at with a 7:00-7:30 lap time. Enzo & CGT eat your heart out. Remember, stcok Z06 at 7:56, no T-1 suspension. Why.

My arguments.

1) Handling out the box should be about 1.1 g's.
Bigger tires, wider stance, Bigger sway bars, C5R geometry suspension.

2) Brakes. Granted the Enzo & Porsche's brakes are awesome, but so is the new vette. The brakes are out the equation, it is going to come down to frontal contact patch. The Enzo fails here miserably with a 245 tire. If you look at fastest stopping cars, most are running a 275-335 front tire.

3) Acceleration. About even. What you have look at is torque over time(r.p.m.) and maximum adhesion of the rear tires.

4) This platform has how many hours/racing behind it vs. the other two. Any racer will tell you it takes time, sometimes years to set-up a car properly. Perfect practice makes perfect.

5) Ferrari's (I have had four them. They are beautiful cars to drive). The new Porsche is a handful. Vettes are relatively easy to drive to the limit as well.

My demented thoughts this morning.
 

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Sounds very optimistic to me mate. Even the radical didn't hit 7 minutes - more in the range of low 7 minutes and that is really a racecar. We all expect an improvement in times and it's only logical etc, but not that big. Reaching 7.30 is a bit far, somewhere in the mid 7.40s could be possible.

Would like to be proven wrong with a bigger improvement then I predict. :yeadog:

P.S. this should be in the C6 Z06 section.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
2002Z06Yellow said:
This is overly optimistic. You are expecting the new Z to lap the older version by a minute! More in the 7:40s
You should take a look at my arguement again and carefully re-read. 7:00-7:30. All of which is less than a minute. I am actually thinking 7:20-7:30.
 

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The ZO6 will not circulate the Ring under 7:30.

However, it will be quite formidable and my guess is 7:45 as well. There are very few street cars that can run below 7:45.
 

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You need huge horse power (like a CGT) to eat up DottingerHohe, the long back straight... you are on full throttle for about a minute (if I remeber correctly) so if you cannot run up to a huge top speed and hold it all the way from Galgenkopf to past Tiergarten, you can see a very fast lap become a mediocre lap quite easily - witness the results of the Exige and Elise that tear up the mountain seciton, but then give away 20 seconds as they run down the endless straight at 150mph max speed.

That being said, we know the C6 Z06 will at least match (hopefully beat) the C5 Z06 through the most challenging twisty bits, like holding good speed through the Hocheichen and Hatzenbach complexes and being able to carry a fast speed up and through Flugplatz.

This will set the C6 up for a good run down the hill to Schwedenkreuz.

Again - we are confident the C6 Z will hold it's own in a 1G+ attack on Aremburg and allow a good solid charge down Fuchsrohre.

For sure the challange of getting through Adenauer-Forst quickly and smoothly is easily done - knowing how well the C5 Z managed it - The run from Metgesfeld to Bergwerk will be the same at least - hopefully a good 2 seconds quicker (gaining at each turn and on each straight through the section).

The extra 100hp for sure will allow the C6 Z to pull some serious speed up the mountain from Kesselchen, carry a good head of steam up to and through Angst Kurve - and again the chassis will be up to quickly getting from the Karussell through Hohe-Acht and on to Wipperman in a good time.

The run from Eschbach, down Pflanzgarten I and II up to Schwalbenschwanz can be quickly done if you have a great chassis and immense power on tap - something we know the C6 Z posses.

Based on an assumption that the numbers published everywhere have some basis in fact - and looking at the extra horspower and better chassis - I estimate the C6 Z06 will be 1 full second ahead of the C5 by Aremburg, and have shaved another second by Kallenhard.

Add to this the 2 seconds gained from Metzgesfeld to Bergwerk - and another 3 seconds by the time they reach the Karussell.

I will say another 3 seconds won from Karussell to Kleiner Karussell - and another 4 seconds as the C6 Z reaches 190mph down Dottinger-Hohe, which helps shave another 1 second off by the time they get back to T13.

That's abotu 15 seconds quicker. 7m41s by my reconing.

However, I am assuing that the C6 Z is an incremental ratchet up in the handling department from the C5 Z - if the C6 Z is really a great leap in chassis tuning, then you could see it carrying significantly more speed through some of the more technically complex sections - resulting in far greater straightaway speeds - as it would be exiting turns at higher speeds, with 100hp more on tap.

But I don't see the C6 Z pulling off a Carrera GT style brute force lap - because we don't have the HP to run 200mph down Dottinger-Hohe - or the chassis to run 170mph down Fuchsrohre or Pflanzgarten).

Any how, I wrote way more than I intended when I decided 7m41s is going to be my estimate. :)

-Paul
 

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Good analysis Paul. Hopefully we will get results in a few weeks.

GOLD72 :cheers:
 

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a few weeks?

we should have had these results last week.


arrgghh. what's the deal already?
 

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luke1 said:
7:41 would be amazing (possible though). I think 7:45 will be the target.
Yep - I also forgot to add that we can assume that the 7m56 was not a perfect lap - they are few and far between, and are normally only reserved for the few weekly 'Ring runnrs.. :)

So, without knowing where the major mistake was on the 7m56s run we may be missing where a couple of extra seconds were left on the table... and we are also assuming that the new car will be lapped without any major time being left on the table either - but 7m45s sounded to round and exact of a number. hehe
 

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RC45 said:
You need huge horse power (like a CGT) to eat up DottingerHohe, the long back straight... you are on full throttle for about a minute (if I remeber correctly) so if you cannot run up to a huge top speed and hold it all the way from Galgenkopf to past Tiergarten, you can see a very fast lap become a mediocre lap quite easily - witness the results of the Exige and Elise that tear up the mountain seciton, but then give away 20 seconds as they run down the endless straight at 150mph max speed.

That being said, we know the C6 Z06 will at least match (hopefully beat) the C5 Z06 through the most challenging twisty bits, like holding good speed through the Hocheichen and Hatzenbach complexes and being able to carry a fast speed up and through Flugplatz.

This will set the C6 up for a good run down the hill to Schwedenkreuz.

Again - we are confident the C6 Z will hold it's own in a 1G+ attack on Aremburg and allow a good solid charge down Fuchsrohre.

For sure the challange of getting through Adenauer-Forst quickly and smoothly is easily done - knowing how well the C5 Z managed it - The run from Metgesfeld to Bergwerk will be the same at least - hopefully a good 2 seconds quicker (gaining at each turn and on each straight through the section).

The extra 100hp for sure will allow the C6 Z to pull some serious speed up the mountain from Kesselchen, carry a good head of steam up to and through Angst Kurve - and again the chassis will be up to quickly getting from the Karussell through Hohe-Acht and on to Wipperman in a good time.

The run from Eschbach, down Pflanzgarten I and II up to Schwalbenschwanz can be quickly done if you have a great chassis and immense power on tap - something we know the C6 Z posses.

Based on an assumption that the numbers published everywhere have some basis in fact - and looking at the extra horspower and better chassis - I estimate the C6 Z06 will be 1 full second ahead of the C5 by Aremburg, and have shaved another second by Kallenhard.

Add to this the 2 seconds gained from Metzgesfeld to Bergwerk - and another 3 seconds by the time they reach the Karussell.

I will say another 3 seconds won from Karussell to Kleiner Karussell - and another 4 seconds as the C6 Z reaches 190mph down Dottinger-Hohe, which helps shave another 1 second off by the time they get back to T13.

That's abotu 15 seconds quicker. 7m41s by my reconing.

However, I am assuing that the C6 Z is an incremental ratchet up in the handling department from the C5 Z - if the C6 Z is really a great leap in chassis tuning, then you could see it carrying significantly more speed through some of the more technically complex sections - resulting in far greater straightaway speeds - as it would be exiting turns at higher speeds, with 100hp more on tap.

But I don't see the C6 Z pulling off a Carrera GT style brute force lap - because we don't have the HP to run 200mph down Dottinger-Hohe - or the chassis to run 170mph down Fuchsrohre or Pflanzgarten).

Any how, I wrote way more than I intended when I decided 7m41s is going to be my estimate. :)

-Paul
Thanks for the detailed info. You obviously know something about this course.

I wonder if we could get the driver to have cameras and microphones mounted at different locations on the car when running on the course like the Porsche Carrera GT has on their website (although this would likely affect the performance somewhat) This would be awesome! GM are you listening?

For those of you who haven't seen this, it's worth checking our the GT run at Weissach

http://www3.us.porsche.com/english/usa/carreragt/modelinformation/experience/weissach/default.htm
 

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2002Z06Yellow said:
This is overly optimistic. You are expecting the new Z to lap the older version by a minute! More in the 7:40s
I agree as well. 7:40's is more believable and that is a damn good time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Gentlemen, have you driven a Z06 with a T-1 Suspension over a Z06 without one? .98/1 g to 1.1g's?

How about real race brakes vs. the standard Z06 brakes?
102/106 vs. 82 ft. from 60-0.

How about a 427 vs. a 346 from 0 to 150 mph.
21 seconds vs. 16 seconds?

Each of which is about a ten percent plus improvement over a stock setup.

I can run circles around a stock Z06 in my car. In fact it feels like a completely diferent car entirely than a stock one. Every six months I drive a stock one, just for giggles.
 

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Grim Reaper said:
Gentlemen, have you driven a Z06 with a T-1 Suspension over a Z06 without one? .98/1 g to 1.1g's?

How about real race brakes vs. the standard Z06 brakes?
102/106 vs. 82 ft. from 60-0.

How about a 427 vs. a 346 from 0 to 150 mph.
21 seconds vs. 16 seconds?

Each of which is about a ten percent plus improvement over a stock setup.

I can run circles around a stock Z06 in my car. In fact it feels like a completely diferent car entirely than a stock one. Every six months I drive a stock one, just for giggles.
You seem to think lapping the ring in 7:40's is easy. Take your car there are try it. If you don't kill yourself you can come back and tell us how you didn't get anywhere near that time.

There's NO WAY the new Z will lap in the 7:20's. Carrera GT holds the record at 7:28!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
andym,

Most of your posts are combative and baseless in nature at least on this forum. As far as the CGT, there are cars that have gone faster and slower than it on that course.

I almost went to Germany this year to run that track for the first time with the C5Registry group. History reflects, that the track requires a professional driver with over a hundred laps of experience on that track to run a good time.

GR
 

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I just think the 7m28s by the CGT is too hard to beat, considering even Dave Hill pay homage to that car. (He drives one, I believe)

However, if the new Z gets in the 7m30s' range, as I believe it will, than it will be an amazing achievement for a mass-produced 65k-priced car. If that happens the car will sell like a hot cake in Europe, in turn will jack up the prices here in the States. :usa:
 
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