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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi guys,

Has Chevy done much suspension tuning on the new ZO6 to improve the feel and precision of the new ZO6? Or is it essentially a stiffer version of the C6 Z51 with massive tires?

I think the weakest part of the Corvette is how the car communicates with the driver from a handling and braking perspective. I have owned a couple C5 ZO6s and that was my biggest complaint. I have driven the C6 quite a bit and it feels even further removed in my opinion and is missing the rawness of the C5 ZO6, which was a character I enjoyed.

I know the new ZO6 will have amazing roadholding ability and will probably exceed 1g on the skidpad and have retina detaching braking ability that won't fade like its predecessor.

However, there is so much more than just impressive test figures to make a sports car enjoyable over the long haul. Corvettes from my past experiences are generally more numb and somewhat removed in the way they feel in comparison to their imported competition. Do we know if Chevy has finally performed some much needed chassis tuning on the C6 ZO6 to make the car feel more like operating a scalpel with surgical gloves versus an axe with canvas work gloves?

I am very excited about the new ZO6, but have this reservation prior to purchasing.

Your input is appreciated. Thanks.
 

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Good Post.

glad to see someone else feels the same way.


after driving ferraris I've become spoiled to the touch of a car and not just the performance.

granted my father and I will be getting the car anyway I'm still curious if it's going to be the same numb rocketship or have some precision feel to it.
 

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Cerberus said:
Hi guys,

Has Chevy done much suspension tuning on the new ZO6 to improve the feel and precision of the new ZO6? Or is it essentially a stiffer version of the C6 Z51 with massive tires?

I think the weakest part of the Corvette is how the car communicates with the driver from a handling and braking perspective. I have owned a couple C5 ZO6s and that was my biggest complaint other than the cheap interior. I have driven the C6 quite a bit an dit feels even further removed in my opinion.

I know the new ZO6 will have amazing roadholding ability and probably exceed 1g and probably have retina detaching braking ability that don't fade like its predecessor.

However, there is so much more than just impressive test figures to make a car enjoyable over the long haul. Corvettes from my past experiences are generally more numb and somewhat removed in the way they feel in comparison to their imported competition. Do we know if Chevy has finally performed some much needed chassis tuning on the C6 ZO6 to make the car feel more like operating a scalpel with surgical gloves versus an axe with canvas work gloves?

I am very excited about the new ZO6, but have this reservation prior to purchasing.

Your input is appreciated. Thanks.
Cerberus, I noticed the exact same thing on my C5 Z06. It was also one of my biggest complaints about an otherwise nice car.

Maybe you should think about a dodge viper. The car is very tight, and you feel every bit of the road, it's not numb at all.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
phantasms said:
Good Post.

glad to see someone else feels the same way.


after driving ferraris I've become spoiled to the touch of a car and not just the performance.

granted my father and I will be getting the car anyway I'm still curious if it's going to be the same numb rocketship or have some precision feel to it.
I've considered looking into a used 360 Modena. I hear those cars are very electric and extremely involving automobiles to drive. I love the sound of a 360 w/ a Tubi. However, the cost of maintenance and repairs scares me from buying one.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
AndyZ06 said:
Cerberus, I noticed the exact same thing on my C5 Z06. It was also one of my biggest complaints about an otherwise nice car.

Maybe you should think about a dodge viper. The car is very tight, and you feel every bit of the road, it's not numb at all.
Are the Vipers that good? Do you have any complaints with yours? Are there any qualities of your ZO6 you miss?

I have only driven a couple of the earlier RT/!0s and was too short to properly reach the pedals effectively.

How do the new SRT-10's compared to your version?

Thanks.
 

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Cerberus said:
Are the Vipers that good? Do you have any complaints with yours? Are there any qualities of your ZO6 you miss?

I have only driven a couple of the earlier RT/!0s and was too short to properly reach the pedals effectively.

How do the new SRT-10's compared to your version?

Thanks.
I've driven an SRT-10 and you owe it to yourself to do the same. The steering inputs are immediate and can catch you off guard if you are a lazy or inattentive driver.
 

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Here's what I posted on another forum re: my SRT driving experience

Viper SRT road test

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Weather here finally improved enough for me to take a break away from my modding party so I took the opportunity to take some sprited drives. On the way, home from driving the red car I spotted a Viper SRT at a friend's used car lot that specializes in performance cars. Since there are only two Viper SRTs in town I immediately knew who the previous owner was, so I stopped by to investigate what I knew would be a well kept car. Then again what turd trashes his/her Viper???? Anyway, I pulled up and without saying a word my friend throws me the keys. The following is my impression from the 15 mile drive I took. Oh, before you ask for pictures, I didn't take any so there!


Notes from before the drive:
The interior is about the same as it was in my Prowler (go figure since they are both Mopars) which means tight fit and hard uninteresting plastics. Functional and pleasing but no one will ever confuse it for an Italian/German import. The pedals are too close. Having big feet (size 13) made it hard to not press the brake and accelerator pedals at the same time, and I wasn't even trying to heel and toe. Also, there is very little-no room for the right foot to rest on. Very cramped down there. The seats, though very, very comfortable and well bolstered; I just could not recline back far enough to get my "lean on." If however you enjoy driving upright, this is the seat for you. I suspect that over long distances this would become very tiresome, although for track situations it's really the ideal set up.

The instrument gauges are easy to read and display real numbers. I didn't like the layout of gauges from pictures I've seen in magazines and truthfully in person it still doesn't rock my world. Nevertheless they are functional and informative.

The shifter is solid and has shorter throws than any "stock" domestic built car I have owned or driven. I had to practice shifting for a few minutes before I drove off just to make sure I knew what gear I was in.


Notes from the drive:
Gotta love that push button start, but "where's the beef?" The exhaust not is quieter than I expected. In fact it's quite tame even under full throttle acceleration (more on that later.) The car is easy to steer around town BUT!!!! OMFG, do not take your eyes off the road or drift away in a daydream because steering inputs are immediate. You wanna turn? Breathe on the steering wheel and it turns. Hit uneven surfaces or ruts in the road? Be prepared to take control or lose control.
For a convertible the car is solid. It feels on par with my Z06 and Roush Cobra (RC), but totally embarrases the Cobra vert. I made a "real world" emergency lane change to avoid some local's tractor parts and the car moved solidly and controllably. No noticeable body lean or shock rebounding, and no perceived suspension float; even at super legal speeds (on a close course, of course.) The car feels so solid that it gives the impression that it is heavier than it really is, if that makes sense to you.

Now for the fun part. The car is fast, very very fast but it doesn't give the perception of acceleration in the same gut sucking way that my Z pulls. The perception of speed is a lot closer to the way my RC pulls. I supose this is because of the crazy torque the car makes at such low rpms, again just like my RC. The exhaust note is mild and gives no indication of what is lurking underneath that long bonnet. A quick trip through the internet would rectify this shortcomming in short order. As for the brakes, they are simplu outstanding and bring you down from speed with ease. Equal to my Z.

Other notes: I noticed that the stereo is nice and produces great sound for a vert. I didn't bring any CDs with me but I can go back for another round if I wish to see how well it can play a funky beat. Something else I noticed was that after my drive even with the top down, the cabin was warming up a bit.

The final assesment:
Over all this car if far better than a GTS Viper I drove in England. That car scared the crap outta me, much in the same way my Roush does, with the way it lays the power to the road. This SRT Viper is much more enjoyable and puts its power to the ground in a controlled fashion. I actually took a tight radius curve at speed and accelerated. I did that once in the GTS and completed a 520 before I realized what happened.

Positives: Solid car, very fast, right now steering, superb braking, solid coupe like handling.

Negatives: Pedals are too close (for my feet), seat does not recline enough (for me), it gets "hot in herre", and I just don't like the gauge arrangement.

My friend offered me the car for $65k and with only 3000 miles on the odometer that is a fair price. I told him I would think about ithe offer this week, but in all honesty I'm certain I will pass.

Later dude(tte)s,
AR
 

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If you really know how to make the C5 Z06 perform, you will love the C6 Z06. If you are a lazy C5 driver you probably won't see much difference in the C6 except you will feel a few more bumps. My 2 cents is if you are able to think while you are driving you are probably going too slow! Cars perform to the level of the driver. Even poor performing cars can out perform good performing cars with the right driver. If you think a Farreri performs better, buy one. Most of my friends that have owned Farreris don't now. My friend who paid $1,7++,+++ for his Enzo has it for sale. If you get a C6 Z06 you should learn how to drive it and out perform others.
 

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I think this is why Chevy can build a car for 65K and Ferrari does it for triple. That last little bit that people often refer to as the soul of the car is very hard to pull out of it. I think BMW is one of the best at doing it. My M3 feels even more a part of me when I drive than my 355. It feels near pefect to drive. I agree the limits of the C6 are much higher than my 355 or my M3 but they don't feel like it. It's kind of like driving a video game.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
painrace said:
If you really know how to make the C5 Z06 perform, you will love the C6 Z06. If you are a lazy C5 driver you probably won't see much difference in the C6 except you will feel a few more bumps. My 2 cents is if you are able to think while you are driving you are probably going too slow! Cars perform to the level of the driver. Even poor performing cars can out perform good performing cars with the right driver. If you think a Farreri performs better, buy one. Most of my friends that have owned Farreris don't now. My friend who paid $1,7++,+++ for his Enzo has it for sale. If you get a C6 Z06 you should learn how to drive it and out perform others.
I think you misread my post. My complaint is with the way the Corvette communicates (or lack of communication) with the driver in regards to handling and braking feel.

I never said the 360 performs better than the upcoming ZO6. I'll say it again; you misread my post. I wrote that I heard the 360 Modena was an extremely involving car to drive.

Your comment that if you have time to think that you are going too slow I disagree with. If you don't think, you cannot make a decision when an immediate reaction is required on the track. However, I do believe that a lot of a racer's driving ability is due to natural ability and instinct, but mental ability is still absolutely required.

I guess Michael Schumacher must have won his championships by pure madness and not mentally anticipating corner entry points and speed, braking points and passing strategy. Schumacher I would guess has amazing mental abilities along with lightning quick reflexes and of course tons of natural talent. Then again, I am only an advanced driver at Porsche, BMW and other club sanctioned driving events and not a retired race car driver like yourself.

With that said, I agree that fast lap times on a road course is primarily driver dependent. However, by one that thinks in my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
355Spider said:
I think this is why Chevy can build a car for 65K and Ferrari does it for triple. That last little bit that people often refer to as the soul of the car is very hard to pull out of it. I think BMW is one of the best at doing it. My M3 feels even more a part of me when I drive than my 355. It feels near pefect to drive. I agree the limits of the C6 are much higher than my 355 or my M3 but they don't feel like it. It's kind of like driving a video game.
I agree 100% with your post. BMW does an excellent job of instilling its cars with "soul".

My BMW family car on paper barely outperforms the CTS-V, however, it feels so much better behind the wheel. The Cadillac is nice, but is no comparison. The BMW just oozes with soul and character. Mercedes on the otherhand is souless in my opinion. The E55K is very fast, but feels completely disconnected to the road.

By the way, how do you like your 355? How is the maintenance expense? Do you put many miles on it? I heard the 360 is less expensive to maintain and repair compared to the 355.
 

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355Spider said:
I think this is why Chevy can build a car for 65K and Ferrari does it for triple. That last little bit that people often refer to as the soul of the car is very hard to pull out of it. I think BMW is one of the best at doing it. My M3 feels even more a part of me when I drive than my 355. It feels near pefect to drive. I agree the limits of the C6 are much higher than my 355 or my M3 but they don't feel like it. It's kind of like driving a video game.
:yeadog: It's not just how fast you get there; it's how you get there.

I still feel a bit awkward driving the C5 Z06 on the street. The car feels a whole lot better on the track to me than on the street. I haven't had a BMW or Porsche on the track, so I don't know what they feel like.

Sal
 

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phantasms said:
Good Post.

glad to see someone else feels the same way.


after driving ferraris I've become spoiled to the touch of a car and not just the performance.

granted my father and I will be getting the car anyway I'm still curious if it's going to be the same numb rocketship or have some precision feel to it.
I have the DRM suspension which will generate well over 1.0 g depending on the tires. I have recorded 1.1 g with Michelin Pilot Sports with little difficulty so I imagine either PS Cups or Toyo Proxy R1s or some other low treadwear shaved tire would generate considerably greater lateral forces. The DRM supension does not feel numb like the stock suspension. I have Bilstein coilovers that are custom valved for the 427 cars, hypercoil springs, stock Z06 sway bars, poly bushings, and massive Alcon brakes squeezing 14.85" rotors. The car is very comfotable on the open road - very compliant.

I think a several simple changes would help the feel of the Z06 for those of us who are very handling oriented:

-Reduce the understeer a bit more. The stock car has a lot of understeer tuned into the alignment in order help prevent wrecks by unskilled drivers who cannot sense the limit of the car.
-Use coilovers on all four corners. The Z06 is in desperate need of truly independent suspension. The DRM coilovers have greatly increased my level of confidence in my car becuase you can feel the road better and the car responds better to inputs.
-Change tires: Do away with EMTs on the Z06. The EMT tire will never have the same lateral acceleration cpacity as a non-run-flat sinmply becuase Goodyear has to use a different compunnd to make the sidewall stiffer.
-Stick w/ 18" wheels front and rear. No racers use 18" front and 19" rear or 17" front and 18 rear" - its just not done.

Viper Eater
 

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Discussion Starter #15
ScDFACHE said:
I have the DRM suspension which will generate well over 1.0 g depending on the tires. I have recorded 1.1 g with Michelin Pilot Sports with little difficulty so I imagine either PS Cups or Toyo Proxy R1s or some other low treadwear shaved tire would generate considerably greater lateral forces. The DRM supension does not feel numb like the stock suspension. I have Bilstein coilovers that are custom valved for the 427 cars, hypercoil springs, stock Z06 sway bars, poly bushings, and massive Alcon brakes squeezing 14.85" rotors. The car is very comfotable on the open road - very compliant.

I think a several simple changes would help the feel of the Z06 for those of us who are very handling oriented:

-Reduce the understeer a bit more. The stock car has a lot of understeer tuned into the alignment in order help prevent wrecks by unskilled drivers who cannot sense the limit of the car.
-Use coilovers on all four corners. The Z06 is in desperate need of truly independent suspension. The DRM coilovers have greatly increased my level of confidence in my car becuase you can feel the road better and the car responds better to inputs.
-Change tires: Do away with EMTs on the Z06. The EMT tire will never have the same lateral acceleration cpacity as a non-run-flat sinmply becuase Goodyear has to use a different compunnd to make the sidewall stiffer.
-Stick w/ 18" wheels front and rear. No racers use 18" front and 19" rear or 17" front and 18 rear" - its just not done.

Viper Eater
ScDFACHE,

Thanks for giving us insight on your suspension modifications that apparently improve the handling feel, dynamics and confidence aspiring of your ZO6. Sounds like you have a nicely set up ZO6. Congrats!
 

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Cerberus,

The one of the main reasons I bought my viper was because of responsiveness to the road (The other two were it being exotic, and the RT/10 a convertible). I liked the Z06, but I have no regrets whatsoever for the trade-in on a '98 viper.

I've never driven an SRT-10, but from what I've heard they are similar in communication with the driver.

You'll want to look at '96 and up vipers (if you're interested in the GTS), or '97 and up (If you're interested in the RT/10. These are called the "Gen II" cars. They have a much upgraded suspension compared to the Gen I. They will also have adjustable pedals, so you can be short and still reach the pedals fine.

So before you make a decision to buy anything, I would highly recommend test driving a viper.
 

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AndyZ06 said:
Cerberus,

The one of the main reasons I bought my viper was because of responsiveness to the road (The other two were it being exotic, and the RT/10 a convertible). I liked the Z06, but I have no regrets whatsoever for the trade-in on a '98 viper.

I've never driven an SRT-10, but from what I've heard they are similar in communication with the driver.

You'll want to look at '96 and up vipers (if you're interested in the GTS), or '97 and up (If you're interested in the RT/10. These are called the "Gen II" cars. They have a much upgraded suspension compared to the Gen I. They will also have adjustable pedals, so you can be short and still reach the pedals fine.

So before you make a decision to buy anything, I would highly recommend test driving a viper.
What did the Gen II run around the N-ring again?..LOL, jk Andy..;)
 

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Cerberus said:
I agree 100% with your post. BMW does an excellent job of instilling its cars with "soul".

My BMW family car on paper barely outperforms the CTS-V, however, it feels so much better behind the wheel. The Cadillac is nice, but is no comparison. The BMW just oozes with soul and character. Mercedes on the otherhand is souless in my opinion. The E55K is very fast, but feels completely disconnected to the road.

By the way, how do you like your 355? How is the maintenance expense? Do you put many miles on it? I heard the 360 is less expensive to maintain and repair compared to the 355.
I love my 355. It is without a doubt one of the mostthrilling cars I have ever driven and I have driven alot of exotics. The sound thru the tubi with the top down is just heaven. I put 6500 miles on it in a year and a half with no repairs at all. It hasn't had any breakage in 3.5 years according to the records. And it was really minor stuff that went wrong. The maintenance is a little less on the 360 and alot less on the 430. The 355 is $1500 at 15K miles and $5000 at 30K miles for the maintenance. Not cheap but it took 6 years for the car to reach 13.5K miles so it's not too bad.
 

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Cerberus said:
I've considered looking into a used 360 Modena. I hear those cars are very electric and extremely involving automobiles to drive. I love the sound of a 360 w/ a Tubi. However, the cost of maintenance and repairs scares me from buying one.
If I could swing one I'd get it in a hearbeat over the new Z. Look into it. I was a the wynn a couple weeks ago and they have a good selection. It's in the basement though....not the regular showroom. Ask to see the basement as most don't know about it and there't not an obvious entrance. You can get a mint 01 6speed with the challenege grill and tubi for around $115. The service isn't really that bad either. Take good care of your service center and they'll take care of you. I've driven a lot of cars and while it's not nearly the most expensive, it's hands down far and away the best thing i've ever driven.
 
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