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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Both the driver and passenger were killed. This is just tragic news to car enthusiasts in general. This was a Ferrari Owners Club track event where many things went wrong to contribute to this tragedy. It goes to show you that when people are fortunate enough to have beautiful high performance machines that the margin for error is reduced and you need to always fault to the conservative and not drive beyond your skills.

From what I understand the Carrera GT was coming to the end of the high speed portion of this road course and didn't see a 360 Modena coming out of the pit exit lanes at a lower speed. He swerved to avoid the car and hit a concrete wall. The passenger was killed instantly and the driver later died of injuries sustained form the crash.

Personally, I have been driving on road courses for over 30 years and I have to say that this confirms why I have an aversion to CA Speedway and tracks with an abundance of concrete barriers.

Could this have been prevented? I am sure that it could have been. The track officials should be paying closer attention, the F-360 merging onto the track should have used better judgement when merging into high speed traffic and the CGT driver should have been paying very close attention to pit lane traffic and faulted to reduce speeds and leave himself more escape routes in a situation like this.

Let this be a lesson to us all... please be safe out there.

Brad

NBC Article:

http://www.nbc4.tv/news/4562562/detail.html#

LA Times article:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/state/la-me-speedway3jun03,1,3734695.story?coll=la-news-state



Photos:

http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0602/4562735_480X360.jpg

http://nbc4.tv/slideshow/news/4562709/detail.html



Ferrari Chat Thread:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61677
 

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This is so tragic.

That is why I did not drive the Roval event there a couple of Fridays back. It is just too fast for street prepped cars.

I don't mind the infield course, but not the banked oval.
 

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Rumors (speculation from other sites) concerning this tragedy:

No pit-out marshall

A Ferarri entering the track caused the GT to take avoidance action at speed (150?) and it spun and...

A Porsche GT was also involved in a minor accident at VIR in April. I did not see it, but saw the results- very minor.

I have spun twice at speed (not at the same track), but there was lots of run-off room where I did it- VIR and Beaver Run. I was driving way beyond my experience/ability. It's easy to do in a fast car.

So sad.

............
 

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ROSSO Z said:
Rumors (speculation from other sites) concerning this tragedy:

No pit-out marshall



So sad.

............
:cry: :cry:
 

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Precautions are the word of the day. Hans Device, roll bars and proper seat belts will reduce the chances of a bad result from an accident.

Life causes death. We all know that and we all manage our lives in a way that we are comfortable with. I become very philosophical when things like this happen. I lost a very dear friend a few years ago. then that season, I also hit the wall very hard at Portland without a Hans device. My neck stretched so far that it flattened the steering wheel. I was told by a GM safety engineer that but for that steering wheel I would also be gone.

Earnhardt was not so lucky since he hit on a weird angle and missed the steering wheel. The result was a basal skull injury that was fatal.

SCCA World Challenge now requires the Hans device, as does NASCAR, F1, ALMS etc. Each year some new invention for safety comes around and some really work. I don't get in my race car, even in testing now without using the hans device.

On street cars at the track, There is no way to use the hans so we are all at greater risk.

Drive smart, drive within your ability and "When you spin, "Both feet in". That part alone will save many from injuries.

God bless these two.

Lou Gigliotti LGM
 

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L G Motorsports said:
On street cars at the track, There is no way to use the hans so we are all at greater risk.

Lou Gigliotti LGM
If you have a five point harness and a harness bar in your street car, won't the Hans work? All it needs are the harnesses and the mounts in your helmet to work. Correct?
 

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Four point bar and the Hans works. I would not drive without out it any more. Price of HANS = 2.5 sets of race brake pads. Hans could be resold in two or three years for 50% what did it really cost you to use? How much are 2.5 set of used pads worth? This is my 3rd year with HANS. Sad what happen but you are going fast. Hit a concrete barrier at 80 and see what happens to your neck :eek2: Slowest course I run is just under 120 MPH. God Bless the two killed.
 

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quickZ said:
If you have a five point harness and a harness bar in your street car, won't the Hans work? All it needs are the harnesses and the mounts in your helmet to work. Correct?

Yes, with a race harness the hans will work. It was a little strange using it at first but now it feels fine and I feel naked without it.

LG

PS,
We all love our cars and we love going fast. The race track is the place to go fast so you won't endanger civilians. but for our own protection we have to be smart. Just having a fast car doesn't make one a fast driver.
 

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Does anyone know what track configuration they were using? I ran the Roval/Infield last Saturday. From the picture, this must have happened somewhere on the road course and not on the Roval. I agree with Oli however, that the course when configured with the Roval is probably too fast for most of us in the begining to intermediate ranks.

I ran the Roval/Road course at Cal Speedway last Saturday and while it a lot of fun, you realize how easy it would be to get in way over your head.

This is a very sad and sobering thing.
 

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proexpert said:
So sad. No DE or track days for me, sorry, but count me out.
A couple people in the area were killed just the other night when someone ran a red light and t-boned their car. Since that happened, should I stop driving on the street?

Like Lou said, life causes death. You can't hide yourself away in a room somewhere and avoid all risks. If you read the article, these are the 4th and 5th deaths in the track's history. This is with all the professional races and renting the track out to organizations 300 days out of the year. I wish I could take those kinds of odds for driving on the street.

I don't mean to dismiss this accident at all. It is horrible and I'm very sad for the people involved. DE's are generally very safe though and a lot of fun. I would recommend that anyone looking to take advantage of the performance capability of the Z06, take it to the track instead of doing it on the street.

Sal
 

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Would someone please post a link to where to purchase a HANS device that will work with a 4 point rollbar/cage? TIA.
 

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http://www.saferacer.com/haresy.html and they have the manufactures website with a 80 page owners maual you can down load. also Stablienergies in NJ sells them. When I bought mine there were no dealers. Mine felt great the first minute I wore it. I'm they type who hates hats also. You have 90 degree vision with it. You never turn your head that far anyway in a car at the track.

I see 865 for one so it's even less than 2.5 sets of pads
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Olitho said:
This is so tragic.

That is why I did not drive the Roval event there a couple of Fridays back. It is just too fast for street prepped cars.

I don't mind the infield course, but not the banked oval.
I believe that they were running the high speed bank configuration and that this occurred at the end of this section. You are carrying so much speed in this area that it does not give you many escape options at these speeds.

I agree with you guys that a HANS should be a standard issue to anyone who tracks their cars. You don't want to go cheap on anything that has to do with your personal safety (especially if you have a family that you are responsible for).

These situations serve to remind us that the track is the ONLY place to drive like this. Think of what the consequences would've been had it been on the street. At least there are qualified safety crews and emergency facilities to attend to those who are injured.

I have to believe that as much as the CGT is a supercar, that it still is a street car with street rubber on it. It is easy to get a false sense of confidence when driving our cars, but we all have to remember that reaction times and margin for error are minute at these speeds.

When driving at track events, try to remember tha these are not racers fighting it out for life and limb. These people are working stiffs with responsibilities like everyone else. Throttle back and enjoy yourselves. I traditionally drive at about 60% of my skill level because I do have a family waiting for me at home. As much as I love cars, they are my life.

Brad
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·

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I bought my HANS at the Saferacer link above for $865, it took about 6 weeks to get. The instructions for the helmet mounts were very clear, took about 1/2 hour. My big brother died in a sreet car accident from a side impact on the passenger side due to the basal skull fracture, so I am very sensitive to this issue.

This is so sad, I fear similar stories when the new ZO6 comes out since it is more affordable but almost as fast. Heck, my girlfriends Honda V6 has 240 HP and I think it is too quick for her skills. I wish there was more focus on training but how to do that is beyond my knowlwdge.

From the looks of the car it is not obvious what actually killed these guys. The driver side looks fairly intact. Was the cause of death actually head/neck injuries or body trauma?
 

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READ before you buy a HANS:
HANS is a great device and every sactioning body allows them but there is more to the device. Safety is a system. If you don't have the entire system you may be better off with say an ISAAC. First you have to live by the rules of who you race with. Here you are talking about H&N. But sanctioning bodies also regulate other parts of the safety system that effect HANS. They will regulate 5point or 6point or hybrid hans harnesses or 2" lap belts etc.... Assuming you have read the rules or race in very loose club level with no rules you can build the car the way you want. For example some rules do not allow welding the cage to the a- pillers or welding to suspension. But we know that welding to these points stiffens and makes these cars tougher. Likewise you need to have the safety system work in concert. For example a HANS does you nothing if you don't buckle your harness. From all the research I have been able to gather HANS works best in a really tight environment. Even rumors have some element of truth and if some of the HANS rumors are true such as slipping shoulder belts upon impact then the safety system is failing. A huge number of sactioning bodies like HANS and many have a cludge to allow fixes to HANS problems (eventhough H&D think there device is perfect). For example "full containment" seats assist you in lateral impacts and hold your body into the seat so that shoulder belts reduce slipping off HANS. Scroth has tested and make two designs of HANS harness. The older Hybrid 2"/3" shoulder belt universally available ($300ish) and a newer very rare and very expensive dual shoulder strap (4 belt) design ($600). Also, Over the years HANS has altered the mounting requirements for successful use of the device. What we are told today is different from a few years ago when the device was "perfect". So that is the primary cobbled up method you need for the best HANS results. The cost of the HANS is only the first expense. It costs you 600 bucks for the 4belt dual shoulder HANS harness. The cheapest 5point is 60 bucks. I dumped anl 8lb carbon OMP schell for a POS aluminium built like a brick sh%thouse Ultrashield custom fullcontainment seat for $1200.00 with shipping. If you can't weld and fabricate you will need a welder to fab up your harness bar to accept and firmly control your shoulder belts in the right position. Zipties will not do it for those thinking you can use a HANS with just a harness bar and stock seats. You may need even more $ in fabrication if you do the 4 shoulderbelt harness because the body belt is mounted in a different place than the HANS belt. That fab costs you more money. On the other hand the Isaac can be used under all conditions with any harness and any seat since it claims action in 360 degrees. Your costs for safety gear end with the single ISAAC purchase. Yes all the other stuff helps and improves your safety sytem but the ISAAC does not need all the other junk to function as the engineer intended. This IMO is a huge advantage. To some the primary fear is head loads but there is more that can be injured than just the head and full containment makes sense but costs much more. The only problem I see with the Isaac is the lack of SFI certification regardless of the political value of SFI and the lack of generalized acceptance by many pro sanctioning bodies. I am no pro but the pros carry weight. I think they know something I don't know. Even SCCA had some issues with it not allowing ISAAC but not restricting you from wearing it. It was confusing. I have used both devices for a couple years each. I was very happy with my ISAAC and it was the most like wearing no device at all. The HANS is very restrictive and it is like two condoms...how much fun is that? I now only use the HANS as my tintop cockpit has been modified to use it and I have succumbed to herd mentality. If ISAAC could be allowed as an alternative device in say F1 or CART etc... I would flip a 180 and go back to ISAAC.


So that's one user's opinion YMMV...
 
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