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Discussion Starter #1
[This message has been edited by Z06Scott (edited 03-04-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Z06Scott (edited 03-07-2001).]
 

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Z06Scott,

There are lots of problems at CF. They are a business. I can understand Troys actions, although I do not condone. We are a non profit Forum. Troy has to make sure his site is clean to make the sponsors happy. In a business, that's the way things have to be done.

I think CF has done a great job. If not,I wouldn't be going to the Cruise-In. All my friends are at CF as well as here and C5Forum will be there. I try to keep the Brotherhood spirit alive.

You're always welcome to post whatever you want here. It won't be deleted or edited as long as you follow the rules.

You can even say FUCK!!
But don't say **** !! F O R D That's a NO NO!! LMAO


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Frank Calmes Quicksilver 2001 Z06
Vortex Rammer & Power Duct, B&B PRT's with Speedway Tips, Ripper Shifter with Momo Knob, Chrome Z06 Wheels



Sherylann Calmes Black 2001 Z06
Vortex Rammer & Power Duct, Chrome Z06 Wheels



[email protected]
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Frank,

Maybe I overreacted a little in my above post, but it is starting to feel like watching Mr. Roger's Neighborhood over at CF. "Let's all be nice to each other boys and girls and heaven forbid, no cursing."

There are things I like about CF, most of the people who post there are great, it is like a brotherhood. But this censorship thing is getting a little out of hand, IMHO.

I would be going to the Cruise-in myself, if it wasn't for my graduation being held on May 25th. Anyway, keep up the good work Frank!
-- Scott

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Scott, don't get me started. It used to be a great place to hang out, but the minute you don't buy into their game, and dissent (and then voice it), all of a sudden your posts are being watched closely, or getting modified without your permission, or locked, or worse yet deleted.

Then they'll make up a story about you telling the members how terrible you were when people ask where you've been, and they'll lead them to believe that they are doing the right thing, you are doing the wrong thing, and that nobody should ever pay attention to you again. This is kind of what happened to me, and several others I know, over there.

As Frank mentioned elsewhere on here, its important to have impartial (and unpaid) moderators who don't accept so much as a dime nor a part for their cars in return for the work they put in to the forum. CF pays their moderators (Troy told me so) for doing various things, which tends to make people look the other way when something wrong is going on and he is asking for them to do something that doesn't seem right.

Every few weeks, someone tries to post C5forum.com there, and of course that is a filtered phrase (turns into **********). Every time that happens, the CF moderators immediately insert a tiny commentary about how the C5forum exists solely to bash the CF forum and then locks the post. Gimme a break! Go read the threads over at C5forum and tell me how much CF bashing you see? Yes, the topic comes up once in a while, but that's less than 1% of the discussions.

"Gee, Redshift, you seem a little sore here." Damn right! But I don't get mad - Troy is free to do what he wants, like Frank said, it's his business (literally). I prefer to spend my time on forums like this where the moderators do their job as a volunteer, and there are no vendors inserting ads in every thread. No vendors to keep happy.

As I recently heard, my favorite phrase is now - "My integrity is not for sale."

I like that phrase. Too bad some people in this world do not.

Good night!

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Brian - Y5116
NCM Business Member
Yellow/Black '00 Coupe
12.6 @ 115 MPH (2.14 60' time)
329RWHP/338 RWTQ

"Redshift" on http://www.c5forum.com
http://www.c5store.com/
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Strangely enough, my post from earlier this morning finally appeared hours after posting it.
An apology may be in order. I guess it is possible that they were having technical problems over at CF. Although, after reading about so many other members getting banned, I am not sure. I never so much as received a warning that I was doing anything wrong, maybe this was my warning. Anyway, if any CF moderators are reading this, I apologize if this was a technical problem. Only time will tell. I will update you guys though if it isn't. Thanks for your support.
This is a great forum!



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[This message has been edited by Z06Scott (edited 03-05-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Z06Scott (edited 03-06-2001).]
 

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Geeeeeze!! Cant a guy get a word in edgewise.....

ummmm......FUCK!! hahahaha


Frank you crack me up!("you can even say Fuck")
LOL!!
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zippy:
"Other forums may be a business, but I make it my business to help others save their money."

Zippy

Red/Black Z06


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Zippy, you are the true Corvette enthusiast. You and others like you are what makes this place great. I salute you.




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Frank Calmes Quicksilver 2001 Z06
Vortex Rammer & Power Duct, B&B PRT's with Speedway Tips, Ripper Shifter with Momo Knob, Chrome Z06 Wheels



Sherylann Calmes Black 2001 Z06
Vortex Rammer & Power Duct, Chrome Z06 Wheels



[email protected]
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Yep Redshift, you were right, CF won't let me post anymore. Disagree with them once, you don't have to attack anyone, or use a curse word, all you have to do is post an opinion, or facts they don't like and thats it, you're done. Thats not brotherhood, thats just big brother.

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I just had to reply to this one! I have been holding back my comments on all of the above for weeks. Yes, I too have felt that my posts are watched closely, modified, etc.
I have received private emails telling me that some of the "supporting" members have personally contacted the moderator and complained about my posting regarding prices on new Corvettes. I have, and will continue to help fellow Vet buyers find the best (lowest) price I know. Period, it's not too complicated. BUT, whenever I try that on the other forum, I get blasted! I will also identify and post if I get a referal fee for sending a customer to any particular dealer and/or sales person. That referral fee is always split 50/50 with the buyer. Again, not too complicated. If I can find a lower price for a customer WITHOUT a referral fee, I still send the customer there. No problem. Matter of fact, did just that this past Friday. A fellow purchased a new Black coupe from a Detroit area dealer because I posted where to buy at GMS. He traveled several hundred miles to buy his dream Vet, and I was as happy for him as if the car were mine!
I will step down from this soapbox, but just glad to see I am not alone in my feelings.

"Other forums may be a business, but I make it my business to help others save their money."

Zippy

Red/Black Z06


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I tend to cut them some slack. There are what, over 10K registered members? How many posts a day is anyones guess. Yes, they make some bad decisions and get heavy handed from time to time, but I think these are few and far between. All things considered, it is remarkably well run IMHO.

It's a double sided sword. I say give 'em a break. Can't please everyone.

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The moderators on the CF try to do a good job, but if they do not like someone they jump a little too fast. There are 16,000 members but probably only 1000 members that really post, the advertising is really getting me of the CF, I understand that the owners of a site should be able to make money but with the banners down the side it's just getting to be a little too much. I love the CF as you can tell by my 12,000 posts, I just do not like it as much as I used to.

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Carl V. *****Authorized Zaino Distributor*****
Huntingdon Valley, PA.** 2000 Magnetic Red Convertible **
MN6,F45,QF5,AQ9,AG2,CJ2,T96,B34,AAB,UN0,U1S,JL4,UV6,T82,N37
** Corvette Club of Delaware Valley **

www.hcvind.com
E-Mail: [email protected]
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Troy Roberts:
Redshift - Moderators are not paid to moderate. Plain and simple. I pay one moderator who does technical work on the site. He is paid a reasonible rate for helping to maintain the site and keep it up and running.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hello Troy:

When I wrote that, I had gone back through my old messages from you to verify I wouldn’t be mis-stating the facts, and this is what you wrote:

”We've begun paying some of our moderators for accepting tasks like handling e-mail and putting up tech tips, product reviews, etc...”

To me, using the word “moderators” indicates more than one moderator. No big deal though, I’ve noted the change you’ve stated above and will assume the e-mail you sent back in July of 2000 is now incorrect.


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>btw... c5forum was filtered because of continuing spam. I'm not saying that you were responsible for the spam. However, when there are multiple posts by a few members who just joined and they all have links to c5forum I think that most people can understand my filtering the phrase. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


In this case we all just need to take your word for it – there is no proof of that right now. I don’t recall postings by “a few members who just joined” but rather members who had been around for a while. I guess when (or if) the archives ever come back we can double-check that fact for ourselves. Regardless, the C5Forum stands well on its own and requires no spamming on CF to do well. If you wish to continue to filter it that is certainly your right to do so. In the case of some members spamming z06vette.com, I was not z06vette.com that got filtered, it was the members that were banned. I would probably suggest being consistent, but I believe you have your reasons for choosing to filter C5Forum rather than the members posting the URL.



<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Another interesting note is how you seem to continue to imply that the CF is some evil business that is not an "open forum". At the same time you run a C5 store that is mentioned on a regular basis on your site but you don't allow competition from other vendors.
At CF we believe in competition amongst vendors and our mall proves that. Feel free to try to claim that c5forum is not commercial but you should know that it's easy for most everyone to see through that.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I’m going to let this one stand on its own, Troy, because I’m not nearly the only one that thinks something fishy is going on at CF. To me what happens there is certainly not morally just, but this is your choice to make, and that is your business and your business alone. It’s my right to this opinion, and I have a lot of facts and experiences to back it up. All you have to back up your statement is your own words.

Now, if members of C5Forum bring up the Corvette Store, that is their business. They also bring up Exit 28 Motorsports, Xtreme, Corvettes of Houston, West Coast Corvettes, and the list goes on and on. These are competitors of mine, but I’m not going to block out any mention of these places nor my own store just because of that fact. Members are free to speak their minds whether or not it is in my best interest or not.

To say that my forum is commercial is ludicrous and I resent the implication, but I am not surprised. On my site I don’t allow vendors PERIOD. I’m there as an enthusiast. So are Shawn, Nate, Jim Hall, John Thawley, and many others. I always plug other people’s businesses (LAPD, Xtreme, Top Notch, Autobuffs, etc.) even though it would be in my best interest to plug my own. If someone asks a question about my company on the C5Forum I write them via private e-mail to answer. C5Forum exists, among other things, as a source of candid information which benefits the members without regard to the board owner’s profit or motivations, and the members know it. It’s a shame you can’t say the same of CorvetteForum. But again, that is certainly your business and not mine.

As for competition between vendors, your mall proves nothing. It proves that you are in charge of the CorvetteForum “who’s who” and get to pick who gets to be in your store and who doesn’t. Call it what you wish, but the simple fact that you didn’t go out of your way to help your old buddy Nate Caro back into your Mall is more than enough proof. Nate helped you get CorvetteForum started, and no matter what happened between him and RG and anyone else, it should have been your obligation to let him back in IMO. I’m sure you’ll have some excuse as to why this is (my first guess is that you’d say “too many vendors crowds the mall and makes things confusing for customers” to which I could write an entirely separate reply) but it just doesn’t seem like the right thing to do. This is my opinion, so there is no need to get into a lengthy discussion about this.

Further, this “everyone” who will “see through” the fact that my forum is non-commercial – who exactly is this “everyone” you speak of? The members of C5Forum don’t see it that way. They all have fun and share lots of great information every minute of the day. They have built friendships through the C5Forum. You are obviously watching C5Forum, and you will notice I am getting tough on CF bashing or any negative talk relating to CF whatsoever – it is not my goal to have a CF bashing forum. C5Forum, contrary to your completely inaccurate statements above, exists for fun and as a way for me to interact with my many, many C5 friends that I am no longer able to communicate with via CF, which you banned me from.
It’s an enthusiast site. It’s my escape from a business that, while automotive related and fun, keeps me so busy I can’t go on vacation or have much free time to myself. I could have lots of profit in my pocket if I permitted vendors on C5Forum (they’ve been asking for months now) but my integrity is not for sale.


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I think it's great that there are different types of forums available. At CF we work hard to keep it an environment that is suitable to many different types of people. When you get over 16,000 unique visitors per day, over 9 million page views per month, and around 1000 active topics per day, you need to keep some sort of control or it would become a madhouse.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nobody would disagree that running a forum with lots of traffic is a tricky job. That said, I would disagree with your web statistics and how they relate to how many real, active members you have, but again the way you prefer to present the numbers is up to you.

You have choices to make just like the rest of us with regards to how to run your forum and if people disagree with you, don’t let it bother you. If you think you are doing a great job, which is obviously what you think, continue doing what you wish and see what happens. If you truly are doing a good job, the forum will do well, flourish, and grow. If not, things will slowly get worse and you may have to change the way you do things in order to remain in your number one spot. It’s really up to you
I hope you are successful at whatever you choose to do. It is not my intention to make C5Forum into a CF killer – it exists as a way to share information, just like CF (just without the vendor involvement). I would appreciate if you would try to see this for once.

Best regards,
Brian A. Marks, aka Redshift
Corvette Enthusiast, Forum Owner, and Business Owner
 

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Come on Sensei...you and I have no axe to grind. You know that if Z06 Scott would have posted a pissing monkey, pissing on you, he would have been banned. I have the highest respect for what Troy is trying to accomplish. He has to do what's best for his business. And, if you had read my earlier post, you would know we try to stop CF bashing. Coming over here and posting
z06scott accomplishes nothing but dissention between the two Forums.

There is no reason that Z06VETTE and CorvetteForum can't co-exist!! Our policy is not to delete or lock posts. Trolls are the exception. When someone bashes CF, we try to step in and calm things down. I beleive we are all adults here and we let the waring factions work things out between them.

If you would like to discuss this in private, then contact me by email and I would be happy to give you my telephone # so we can discuss this.

Please...let's not get a war started. Our intent here to to promote Corvette Brotherhood.



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Frank Calmes Quicksilver 2001 Z06
Vortex Rammer & Power Duct, B&B PRT's with Speedway Tips, Ripper Shifter with Momo Knob, Chrome Z06 Wheels



Sherylann Calmes Black 2001 Z06
Vortex Rammer & Power Duct, Chrome Z06 Wheels



[email protected]
 

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I heard my name being mentioned.
I wont reply because there would not be enough server space to hold it all.
I have nothing nice to say about the issues on this thread and most of the accusations against ?? I am reading, I believe are true.
I should know.I have been in the middle of it all.

Nate


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Nate Caro
Xtreme Motorsports/ Corvette Garage
Xtreme Motorsports
1-806-798-0246
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fcalmes:
When someone bashes CF, we try to step in and calm things down.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's where we have a problem. His post of pissing on CF was allowed to stay. So no one is enforcing no CF bashing here.

I can tell you this. If I saw a member at CF do the same thing with your forum, I'd kill it.

I'd kill it for the reasons you gave. I don't have an ax to grind, but I'm very good at it if need be. You can't expect to let someone make a crappy post like this and not get a crappy response.

Personally, I thought all in management here thought highly of CF and were proud to a member. However, going after me instead of the other guy tells me that perhaps this belief is incorrect.


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orderofthedragon.com
 

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Sensei,

Scott appologized, what else do you want??
Scott is more than welcome to delete his post, but it is against our policies for me to delete posts!!

BTW...Welcome to the Forum!!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Originally posted by fcalmes:
Sensei,

Scott appologized, what else do you want??
Scott is more than welcome to delete his post, but it is against our policies for me to delete posts!!

BTW...Welcome to the Forum!!


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Done. Everyone happy now?



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