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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am about as fickle as it comes to cars lately. I owned a E36 M3 for just under 3 years and loved it. But it was a bit small in the back seat for my business use (outside sales) so I thought it would be a good idea to trade that plus a 540iT that wasn't getting driven much any more for a E39 M5. Turns out I liked the M3 better - more nimble. Sure, the M5 had power and refinement, but it was a pig. So I traded it in on a 2004 Z06 last summer when they were giving them away - just before the C6 started arriving. Now I am almost 1 year into the Z06 and while I absolutely love the car, I have determined it is not the best daily driver. So now I am relegated to my SUV (Nissan Armada) as my primary driver which is getting a bit old. So I am considering moving the Z06 while I haven't yet lost much on it's value and pick up a toy and a driver. I guess I am coming to the conclusion that the Z06 is really a toy for me and I do not want quite so much $$ tied up in my toy when I am driving a truck around everyday to keep it. Out of about half a dozen or more cars I've owned as daily drivers in the last 10 years the M3 was by far my favorite - so I am thinking why not go back to one? If I do that I could budget in the $20-25K for a toy, so I'm thinking what about a '91 ZR1?

I've owned a C4 for 5 years now - a '91 TPI car that started as a dual purpose track / street car and has since migrated to a full-on road race car. So I do not need the Z06 for track events - I have that covered and I am planning to start actual wheel to wheel racing with it later this year. So I know plenty about C4's. I have always liked the ZR1's too. I saw a black one last week at the gas station - I was in my Z06, and it had Fikse wheels on it and I was thinking - wow - that is sweet.

Of course, I have some concerns about the ZR1. Not what you might think - yes, it is a 15 year old car now and the motor is rarified air, but I can deal with that, and I know how to maintain C4's pretty well by now. And the power is roughly on a par. But my biggest concern is weight - I know much of the Z06's nimbleness comes from 3100lbs, and moving up to a 3400lb sports car seems to a road racer like moving in the wrong direction.

Anyway - thoughts from anyone who has owned both Z06 and ZR1 on this dilemna? I am also worried I will miss my Z06 - there is something about owning a car from brand new and keeping great care of it too...

Scott
:screwy:
 

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never hadda a zr1 but i had a few lt1 c4's.i know the zr1 engine is a sick engine.it woulda been cool if chevy stuck with it and refined it even further.on the other hand the c4 chassis' suck big a*s compared to our z06's.i hear ya about the fickle part too.i 've had alotta different cars in the last 5 years.good luck with whatever choice you make.
 

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I have never had a zr1 but have been and am in your exact situation. I love bmw's. I have had a 540i, M5, E36 M3 over the past few years. I traded my 540 and e36 m3 for my z06, then decided I didnt need it and it wasnt a very good daily driver. then I traded the z06 for a e39 M5, great daily driver but it was very heavy and what do I need 400 hp in a sedan for? so I actually sold it and bought my same z06 back from the dealer (who still had it). Now I miss my sport sedans again. I figure that I bought the exact same Z06 twice so I had better keep it. I am tired of driving the suburban but I cant afford another bmw right now. I am trying to wait until I can afford the Z06, the suburban and a bmw sport sedan but it is difficult. I know if i sell the Z06 I will regret it a lot. I am actually considering a used 530i E39, I have heard the steering and handling are better than the v8 e39 due to weight, plus they are cheaper used.
 

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What a BMW has to do with ZR!/Z06 i have no idea.........The Z06 is far in a different league than the ZR! , which, in its day was awesome, i owned one....The LT5 was a jewel, the C4 vette was not fit/finish/paint/squeeks on and on....If you can do it, own both, i am looking at possible buying a ZR1 myself in the future,to sit beside my current Z, trying to find my old 94 #100.....Drive one before you make your choice...
 

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Wow. Complicated. I have a very long commute and drive a Sable as a result. I do not want a really nice car to absorb 100 miles per day and be pelted with grit from dump trucks. My Z06 rarely goes to work and is a weekend toy. It works fine for me.

If I were you and you really want the better grade of daily driver, I'd just get an economial, used BMW, keep your C4 racer, and sell the Z, and save the rest of the cash. A 530i will still be fun to drive on the daily grind and even the weekend jaunt if you get good tires and brakes. A ZR1 is just unnecessary--it holds no real allure to me--the Z is a better drive--unless I were a collector and found a pristine one w 5000 miles, in which event I couldn't drive it, anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
mooch - that is too funny, especially since I also owned a Suburban in there that I didn't mention. When I sold the 540 and M3 to get the M5 the burb was the wife's driver. But then we got my wife a Mazda, so the burb was sitting there and the M5 was starting to look expensive to own out of warrantee so I traded it for the Z06 as my "daily driver" but knowing I had the burb as a back-up. Turned out the burb became my primary driver which was getting old fast. I solved that by trading in the burb on a Nissan Armada - which is so much nicer and is a great family trip car and tow rig, but is still a full sized truck and not what I prefer to drive daily. I am in sales and I pop over to various customers throughout the day, so I use my car more than just to and from work. And with the current set-up I am stuck in the Armada anytime I need to carry people, anytime I am going someplace I don't want to park the Z, when it's raining, and when I am riding my bike - add all that up and it is about 80%. Weekends leave little time to enjoy a car for me - two kids, both playing soccer, camping and other weekend trips - racing, skiing, bike rides. No time to enjoy a weekend toy. So I prefer to have my fun car available during the week.

In hindsight, if I had just kept the E36 M3 as my daily driver, sold the 540i and picked up a FRC or 2002 Z06 I would be in much better shape. I'd have my nice BMW sports sedan to drive during the week and the vette for those special occasions. I still like having a street vette as part of the stable - even if it isn't used all that much. Also gives me a back-up track vehicle, which I will be using next week at Thunderhill since the race car has a dead motor.

If I hang out another 1-2 years I could afford to just keep the Z06 and pick up a decent sports sedan as my daily driver - either a E46 3 series, E36 M3 or a E39 5 series w/ manual trans in any case. But in much the way I felt the 400hp sedan was a waste I am also coming to the conclusion that a 400hp sports car is overkill for 95% of my driving, which is putting around town. E36 M3 is good for that and still handles wonderfully - most of the moments I get to play around on the streets involve corners, so I rarely if ever get to dip into the intoxicating rush when the LS6 is unleashed. Maybe I would be happier afterall in a sedan and leave that rush for the track in the race car.....

I'm torn...

Scott
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
My other thought was trade the Z06 for a CTS-V, but the resale prices on those have not quite dropped enough yet to make that interesting to me. Also, while I get to keep the LS6 / 6-speed drivetrain I am back to - why do I need 400hp in a sedan again. Plus, that gets me back to a luxurious pig that is trying to be a good handler, but just isn't. I think I would be happier in a lighter more nimble car. Problem is, nobody makes such a sedan anymore - everything keeps getting heavier - even the E90 3 series is heavier than the E46, which was already getting too heavy compared to the E36. So I don't think I'd be very happy in a non M 3 series if I didn't still have the Z06 (or at least some vette) in the garage too. Even more-so with a 5-series, and I can't stand the new ones. Maybe the E90 M3 4-door is a good option, it has a 400hp V8 and should be more nimble than the E39 M5 was - it will likely be an awesome car. But I expect pricing to be close to $60K for those when they hit the streets, which is too high. Maybe in 2 years when used ones are available and pricing has stabilized a bit.

E36 M3 is sadly still looking like the best handling sports sedan available. But somehow I would have a hard time going back to a 7 year old M3 from a brand new Z06 unless I still had a vette somewhere in that garage.

anyway...
 

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I guess I should count my blessings. I't sounds like I made the right decision when I kept my '95 E36 M3 because I enjoy it so much as a daily driver and sold my C4 and bought a 2002 Z06 in 2003 with just 4000 miles on it for $38,000 from a dealer. I use the BMW most days and autocross & run track days with the Z06 on weekends. I instruct for BMW, PCA and a few other clubs in the area who don't mind me running the Z06. Both the BMW & Z06 are great cars and both go well on the street or track.

Brian
 

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I own both a 93 ZR1 and a 03 Z06. The two cars are about as different cars can be. The ZR1 is smooth and very refined. The Z06 is crude in comparison. The Z06 is quicker in the 1/4, but no match for the ZR1 above 80 or so. I really can't say which one I like better. The ZR1 is more rare if that means anything. Definitely has more WOW appeal when the hood is open. :cheers:

 

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IT L GO or Rick, what the power rating on the 93 anyway?

I hear the Zr1 went like 375,385,405 as the years went by...


also with that technology of motor isnt safe to say that theres more power potential in the Zr1s motor versus the simple LS6?

do you have anything done to the Zr1? I ask this because I wonder what does it take for a Z06 to get a Zr1 from say what you mention 80mph? I know for a fact the Z06 is rated at 405hp and for that power it is one of the most better performers for the power from around that speed, I cant think of another 400hp car that accelerates from 70/80mph to 100+mph as quick as the Z06 other then 500+ hp cars, or $120k + cars, other then viper and the ZR1.


luis
 

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The first 3 years (90,91&92) of the ZR1 had 375 HP 2 bolt mains and they Dyno around 330 to 340 RWHP. The last 3 years of production 93,94&95) had 405 HP and 4 bolt mains. There were 448 made each year. They Dyno around 340 to 350 RWHP. My ZR1 is box stock with every sticker that comes on a new car still on it or I have. It a 40th Anniversary (Ruby) model with 644 miles on it. :cheers:
 

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COUTO1981 said:
IT L GO or Rick, what the power rating on the 93 anyway?



also with that technology of motor isnt safe to say that theres more power potential in the ZR1s motor versus the simple LS6?




luis
Not really, It take big bucks to get horsepower out of a ZR1. A full tilt built ZR1 motor (415 CID) Dyno's at 540 to 600 RWHP. That about the same a the LS1/6 427 motor puts out. :cheers:
 

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IT L GO said:
The first 3 years (90,91&92) of the ZR1 had 375 HP 2 bolt mains and they Dyno around 330 to 340 RWHP. The last 3 years of production 93,94&95) had 405 HP and 4 bolt mains. There were 448 made each year. They Dyno around 340 to 350 RWHP. My ZR1 is box stock with every sticker that comes on a new car still on it or I have. It a 40th Anniversary (Ruby) model with 644 miles on it. :cheers:

I see with those milage you problably couldnt answer my question, but I'll try, with your vararam exhaust and tune you think the zr1 still can get it on top end? not being sarcastic, I wanna know :yeadog:
 

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IT L GO said:
The first 3 years (90,91&92) of the ZR1 had 375 HP 2 bolt mains and they Dyno around 330 to 340 RWHP. The last 3 years of production 93,94&95) had 405 HP and 4 bolt mains. There were 448 made each year. They Dyno around 340 to 350 RWHP. My ZR1 is box stock with every sticker that comes on a new car still on it or I have. It a 40th Anniversary (Ruby) model with 644 miles on it. :cheers:
Hold on...you only have 644 miles on your ZR1?

That's just about 55 miles a year...why would you get such a nice car only to drive it so little?
 

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AndyZ06 said:
Hold on...you only have 644 miles on your ZR1?

That's just about 55 miles a year...why would you get such a nice car only to drive it so little?
Kind of like a Painting on the Wall :blush:
If I would have know it was such a nice car I would have bought one with lots of mileage I could drive all the time.
 

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:yeadog:
AndyZ06 said:
Hold on...you only have 644 miles on your ZR1?

That's just about 55 miles a year...why would you get such a nice car only to drive it so little?

I say by now only 644 miles, might as well keep it that way , Its a very good collector, in a decade it will problably sell for more then he paid, and some could say he never enjoyed driving it, but I guess thats what the Z06 is for, plus he gets enjoyment of having and be able to talk about both and own both which are a pair of the best Sports/muscle cars of history
 

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COUTO1981 said:
I see with those mileage you probably couldnt answer my question, but I'll try, with your vararam exhaust and tune you think the zr1 still can get it on top end? not being sarcastic, I wanna know :yeadog:
One of the first things I did when I got the car one to join the 180 mile an hour club. I just wanted to see if the ZR1 could go that fast. For very little money the Z06 can out perform the ZR1 in any configuration except for top speed. The only thing that keeps a Z06 from from going over 180 is gearing, If the Z06 had the same 5th gear ratio as the the MN6 tranny, It could easily top 180 MPH. If your bump the rev limiter up to 6800 RPM on a stock Z06 IMO it would go over 180 with stock gearing. :z:
 

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IT L GO said:
One of the first things I did when I got the car one to join the 180 mile an hour club. I just wanted to see if the ZR1 could go that fast. For very little money the Z06 can out perform the ZR1 in any configuration except for top speed. The only thing that keeps a Z06 from from going over 180 is gearing, If the Z06 had the same 5th gear ratio as the the MN6 tranny, It could easily top 180 MPH. If your bump the rev limiter up to 6800 RPM on a stock Z06 IMO it would go over 180 with stock gearing. :z:
sorry to push but I want to be clear(might as well as deep as we hijacked the thread might as well :lol: ) ...

so the Zr1 is faster from 80mph on versus a stock Z06, but are you saying with a CAI and a tune the Z06 will push even to the Zr1 from 80mph? not top speed just acceleration?
 

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COUTO1981 said:
sorry to push but I want to be clear(might as well as deep as we hijacked the thread might as well :lol: ) ...

so the Zr1 is faster from 80mph on versus a stock Z06, but are you saying with a CAI and a tune the Z06 will push even to the Zr1 from 80mph? not top speed just acceleration?
I would say normal bolt-on's like Headers and CAI and the nod goes to the Z06. Many Z06 owners claim that they have beaten ZR1's from 80 up stock. This is not true from my own personnel experience. :cheers:
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
As far as keeping your M3, that is a good call. That is the one decision I wish I could undo over the last 10 years of trading around cars like they were playing cards. If I had only kept the '98 M3/4 I had, I could have picked up a Z06 or even ZR1 and been done with it. There are just so many situations where I chose not to bring the vette - either I need to bring both kids with me, or it will be raining, or I want to bring my bike along, or I will be parking somewhere a bit questionable to leave such a nice car, etc. etc. I have managed to log 500 miles per month average so far with it, but....
 
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