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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I talked to Myron Cottrell today, owner of TPiS and he said dyno testing is showing a hp drop at high rpms with the Donaldson on '02s. They think it may be due to the maf redesign. They are working on a solution, but advise not to do the Donaldson on an '02 for now. TPiS was the designer and original marketer of the Donaldson Blackwing aka Air Force 3 aka LS6 filter. The Donaldson does work great on '01 and earlier Vettes. Probably the best non-bottom breather available. The '02 issue may be on all '02s not just Z06s.
 

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Wow! Glad I read your post since I installed my Donaldson last week. I noticed a slight increase in the overall sound of the car (already had Corsa Indys on it) but had no idea I would lose top end hp! :eek:

Do you know if any harm could result in using it on an '02?
I can accept the lower hp, but am now concerned about possible engine damage....maybe I'm just being overly cautious?

Thanks again, and keep us updated. :cheers:

Zippy :z: :z:
 

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Like to see what their solution and what their dyno sheets look like

Maybe it's bring in too much air.

TPIS USE to distribute these and now they don't. This was at the time of the '01 intro when the rights changed to another company.

When I used to quiz them about mods and dynos to give customers real world numbers, they'd tell me dyno's aren't everything. They used to advertise the Blackwing, by another name, as a 30 HP gainer in their catalog. That's what I inquired about. They told me 'that' filter was on a heavily modified motor though it was not mentioned in the ad. Seems they may have different ideas at different times. I found their service to us as a dealer for them was less than acceptable for not making some header issues right with our customers.

I'd like to hear more if you get more info.



RG
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Zippy, no need to worry. The theory is that the '02 is somehow torque limiting with the Donaldson. No harm will come to your car. Now want to race at high rpms? :p
 

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WOW, that's news to me. During the Rt 66 weekend, the people selling the Donaldson stuff told me I'd Gain 30 hp, yes thirty hp. I questioned his statement & he guaranteed it. Yea, right


I'd be williing to bet the hp reduction is due to incoming air turbulance due to the lack of a straightening device (MAF Screens)
on the 2002.

Looking forward to include the Donaldson in the Intake shootout test.

Joe
 

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I believe you were told this, please don't mistake my comments as not trusting what you heard. Were there any partculars for those dyno runs? Was a relearn involved? This was on one car that probably needs a MAFtranslator adjustment like all benefit from. Perhaps that's part of TPIs solution...we'll see what's next.


http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=170118

RG
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I posted this topic on the other forum too. Here is what I wrote in reply to questions on the info I posted.


RG, it was shown to us on dyno sheets and an '02 Z06 owner with one in the box was advised not to install. The new marketer of the Blackwing is the Rich Gardner Co.s I believe. Rich and Myron have been friends for years, Rich raced one of Myron's Vettes in the World Challenge. Myron not only designed this filter, he still sells them (now with the Blackwing name) and he still sells the cold air cover for them. Others also sell them, including your co., but I would take this warning seriously if I owned an '02. Myron does not sell anyother C5 filter, only the Blackwing.

GNX, the guy at Route 66 was Rich Gardner, he and Myron have done business and racing with eachother for years. The Blackwing made 30 more hp at the crank on an early C5 that had the full restrictive box. It has never been claimed to do that on an '01 or '02 Vette, because the box was more open from the factory. I have known both of these guys for years. I have raced against both of them. They are some of the good guys of this hobby. My post is only meant as a warning of a possible issue for us Vette owners. The vendors can make whatever contrary claim they want to the TPiS warning, but TPiS still sells this filter and no other C5 filter.
 

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No Donaldson for 02's

i'm sure i stated this before but with the Donaldson my car ran a best of [email protected] with the donaldson and [email protected] with the stock airbox( cut open and 60fts both at 2.0). i kept getting lean codes with the donaldson even after several 100 mile relearn's. The LT fuel trims were in the 15-20% range. with the stock box they have dropped to 4-6%. i too beleive that the 02 mass air was misreading alot of the air due to turbulance at the mouth of meter with with donaldson design. i do however think that the 01 meter could possibly correct this as long as the screen stays in.
 

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Zippy.......

I would PULL IT..................
On another forum, this same question came up......the car was modded.......but, the same principle will apply to your stocker....
The '02's are delivering much better flow.....straight up.....
When the Donaldson, ( or probaly any other ultra hi flow), is/was installed....it causes the engine to knock, ping, under hi rpm's, and internally raises the operating temps.......too lean.............
The way it read....the driver knew NONE of this was happening......30# injectors were installed, and several various sundry things done to correct it..........
Bottom line, ' 01's Go fer it......' 02's.......wait......
FWIW.......:-?
 

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RG,

I think I'll hold off installing the Donaldson I bought from you last month on the new 2002 Z06 until this all gets settled. Not good news at all, I had planned on installing it this afternoon.

Roy
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
RG, I would love to know more too. I doubt that I will hear anything else directly because I probably won't see Myron for about 3 more months. TPiS only told us they were seeing a problem at high rpms with '02s and the Blackwing. They didn't know why at this time. I suggest anyone curious call them in a few weeks. The Donaldson has always worked well on my '01 and I may install the cold air cover I bought last year based on info I also received from TPiS. Just be sure to velcro the cover to the radiator shroud.
 

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Well for what its worth my 02 feels much stronger with the Blackwing installed. I also have a halletch airbrige on it as well. I'm keeping it.:D
 

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Damn guys!:mad: :(
I just got the Black Wing installed on my '02 tonight! I hope this is all bull or that Donaldson has a solution.(I sent them a e-mail) RG seems to think this may be premature and I tend to agree. I had the Black Wing on my '01 Z and had my MAF screen removed and never got any codes or had any problems. I used a power duct with Z06 logo and a red coupler on my car, it looks great! I'd hate to have to take it off. :( My car only has 22 miles on it but unlike other mods, I didn't see any reason not to put it on right away. I'll post the reply if I get one from Donaldson.
Take Care,
 

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Jim Hall has already reported gains on the '02 with his intake setup. I wonder where Vortex stands in the gain/no gain arena?? :-?
 

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Well Frank, I would guess that my 1,100 mile '02 was NOT making 420.5 crank h/p and 412 crank ft/lbs of torque from the factory! :D There was also noticeable detonation and kr pullback at around 6,100 rpm.

Furthermore, for whatever reason, the particular dynojet i tested on has always registered the most conservative rear wheel numbers of any other dynojet I have tested on, with my other vettes.


So, i think it is reasonable to make the following two observations:

1). The Vortex installed on the '02 is not causing any of the problems (on my car) that some have reported with the Blackwing; and

2). The Vortex is making some addiitonal h/p and torque.


My $.02
 

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After reading some of these posts, I took my 02 that has a blackwing on it and ran it a few times to the redline in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, I didn't want to take it any faster, because I would rather sleep at home tonight and not in JAIL. I couldn't detect any knocking or pinging and got no codes. Everything seemed fine and the car was very strong. To be honest the car is so fast it is hard to compare the two filters, it breaks traction either way. One thing for sure though you can tell a difference in the exhaust, it is some louder.
 
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