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I posted about this earlier (end of january) as well.

Because of this, GM will play it smart and make a cost of new Z in 55-60k range.
 

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The General needs to wake up and realize that there are good cars out there that are cheaper and more reliable then what GM is producing and then give the world something better then they have been offering.

The price of the ZO6 will not have any bearing on GM's bottom line.

MHO
 

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GM cars are not selling.
Thats the reason they are losing money.
They made trucks, gas prices go up, people dont buy trucks.
I am 99% sure that the price of new Z will be between 55-60k, that way they will sell every singe one that they put out there.
Afcourse after tax, and crap, you will probably be able to pick new Z between 60-65k out of the door. (99% sure about that).

Just wait and see!
 

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The problem is their line up is terrible. The Malibu, Impala, Monte Carlo, Sunfire, Grand Prix, Cobalt are all horrible looking. GTO is not that great looking, rather plain. So that is almost their entire line up. They need to work on their ugly designs.
 

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GM created a monster called "incentives." And it is consuming itself...

When the car-buying public knows that the incentives never go away, then it becomes a defacto "factory discount."

I read the comments on this forum... Everybody wants an ultimate car but wants to buy it for an economy price! This is a huge contradiction.

Negotiating in good faith can occur successfully within the confines of a normal profit margin. But, in an effort to keep inventory levels low enough to keep assembly lines moving, the contrived, abused incentive programs were created. The competition of course had no choice but to follow suit. This has resulted in chaos in the automobile business. And at some point, it will burst and lots of companies will be chapter 13. And of course, the prices of used cars take an equivalent shellacking! Just look at the values of used Z's right now! The spread between an `02/`03/`04 Z is only a few grand at the wholesale level.

GM is playing with a lot of futures - and in typical short-sightedness exemplified by GM, they mortgaged their future for a few years of posting artificial sales growth. :cry:



Guess what?
 

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Defender -- well put!

I have heard the big 3 complain constantly about incentives.

If the Z doesn't sell well, I bet GM will offer incentives as opposed to price cutting.

A C6 Z with 0.0% doesn't sound too shabby!

-N
 

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With a projected 80% reduction in earnings for 2005, nothing GM does will surprise me......delayed introductions, reduced product offerings, you name it.
 

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This is a "slippery slope" GM finds themselves on...and for their very survival, vehicles MUST be produced that:
A) People REALLY want to buy
B) People will pay "market price" for, NOT expect BOTH "value pricing" AND "incentives"
Otherwise, praying for 0% on a C6-anything will become a moot point... :jawdrop:
 

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Why do you think GM is a car company? GM is a financing company that gives away cars to attract customers for its financing!

The more I think about the more I agree with RedBull: $59,990 + $1700 GGtax and maybe $4,000 in options.
 

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GM bless their heart has a knack for butt ugly styling. Like the new Buick LaCross, why not redesign a snoot for the thing that is attractive, change its stance and put some wheels and tires on it. This is not rocket science regarding styling.
 

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They've got a product, placement, and branding problem. More and more people are going with imports. While GM's sales have been going down, import sales have been going up - WAY up. And people are getting very little incentives with imports, and are often paying more for them than a comparable GM model. Why? Product.

Look at Honda and Toyota with their best seller bread and butter models, the Accord and Camry. Boring cars for sure, but this isn't the enthusiast market like for us. These cars are supposed to be boring, and just work well. Boring, yes, but you can't really fault them for anything else. They have good features, good ergonomics, good power, good room, nice rides, they depreciate slowly, and they have long reputations and perceptions of reliability and quality (which I don't necessarily agree with, but it is the market perception).

Two people I work with recently purchased a new car. Both bought Honda Accords. Why? Because it was easy to. They're not car nuts, and they didn't know what else to get. They heard so many great things about Hondas from other people, that it became an easy default choice. They liked the feel and comfort of the car when they sat it in and test drove it. It became an easy decision for them - why wouldn't you buy a Honda?

Now, there was plenty of fine GM product available that competes with the Honda Accord. The Pontiac G6 certainly comes to mind. Yet, they didn't even look at any of the GM models. Why? No need to. The Honda gave them everything they wanted, with little to no risk. Why would they take a chance on a GM car with an unknown reliability and depreciation factor, especially when the *perceived* quality of an average GM sedan is less than the Accord? They didn't even know what a G6 was, and didn't know anyone who had one, even after all the Oprah hooplah. Malibu? Yeah, the one is vastly better, but all they remember is how boring and blah the old Malibu was. Again, why take the chance when the Honda is a sure thing?

BMW is another example in the entry level luxury area. Sales of the 3-series continues to rise with hardly any incentives, yet GM has struggled to move CTS', using massive incentives to keep sales moving. It's a similar phenomen with the Honda Accord comparison. The 3-series is a sure thing - it's familiar, it gets great reviews, it holds it value well, etc. Even if the CTS is a superior performing car, why should the average buyer take a chance on one? Creating a love-it or hate-it styling doesn't help much, when your target buyer is a conservative yuppie.

It's a real problem for GM. The whole perception thing takes a long time to undo. Confusing customers with so many different brands that keep shifting is making it worse. Like what the hell is Buick doing? Nobody knows anymore.

I think GM needs to restucture their entire car lineup. Take a page out of Nissan's restructuring play book. What Nissan did was very simple and worked: they created one car platform that was done very well, and was very flexible with many uses in both FWD and RWD configurations: the 'front mid-ship' platform. From it, they spun the Altima, the Maxima, the Quest, the 350Z, the Marano, the Infiniti G35, and the FX. They also used one engine for the bulk of their cars: the 3.5L VQ V-6. A great engine that has plenty of power with ranges from 240hp to 295hp with very little changes among the engines. The basically have only two other engine series: a 4 cylinder with two variants, and a V-8 with two variants. Simple, cost effective, and it works. Instead of having 20 different engines with 20 different platforms that some are good, and some aren't, they've got just a few that they spent concentrated R&D money on to get it right. I think GM should do the same. They were the original masters of platform sharing, so they certainly should know how to do it better.
 

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First of all, to cure a problem or problems, you have to ADMIT to that/those problem(s)...
Arrogance is NOT easily reversed, ignored, or forgiven.
Second of all, the "press" needs to cut some slack...NOWHERE is GM held in high regard in the "motoring press"...and it's NOT becasuse of grossly inferior product, alone...it's NOT COOL to like GM...they're the King Kong of Automotivedom, and guess what happened to HIM??
Do you have ANY idea just how many people would CHEER if GM went Chapter 11?? Too damn many, is the answer, even if it's only a couple.
Think of the devastation to the North American economy....
And DON'T LAUGH, it's closer than many want to think...and it HAS been considered...
 

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PowerPro01 said:
Do you have ANY idea just how many people would CHEER if GM went Chapter 11?? Too damn many, is the answer, even if it's only a couple.
Think of the devastation to the North American economy....
And DON'T LAUGH, it's closer than many want to think...and it HAS been considered...
one of the financial pundits was commenting today regarding how GM should already be in Chap. 11.......then again, these same people were touting the Enrons and Worldcoms a few years ago, too :eek2:

all that said, some radical surgery is indeed required if GM is to continue in the future years....
 

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pat03z06 said:
The problem is their line up is terrible. The Malibu, Impala, Monte Carlo, Sunfire, Grand Prix, Cobalt are all horrible looking. GTO is not that great looking, rather plain. So that is almost their entire line up. They need to work on their ugly designs.
Bingo. Besides the Z06 (and even that is so-so) GM produces UGLY cars! When I think back to old GM cars I remember them looking WAY better than thier off shore counter parts in MANY respects.

Lets face it, most people (not gear heads and enthusiasts) go by two things... what does it look like and what is everyone else saying. GM has a terrible reputation for quality. Whether true or not the rep is there. They fail miserably in the styling department (We are not talking trucks here just cars). Lets remember a few things like the super cool Grand-am. with all of it's plastic get up enshrouding it it was a sure winner! :puke:

How about that Aztek? :puke:

Now look at chrysler. THey are taking old Mercedes technology, rehashing it and branding it as a "New Car" (i.e the 300c and the Crossfire) and they are selling cars like crazy! Hell just how many awards has the 300c won at this point???

GM taked that boring holden slaps a GTO sticker on it and what happens? It fails miserably.

Seriously, GM will either need to lower the price or improve the line up. Looks like they are in for a long hard road if they don't do one or the other.

JUST MY .02 FWIW. (about .01 :lol: )
 

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Blackened said:
Now look at chrysler. THey are taking old Mercedes technology, rehashing it and branding it as a "New Car" (i.e the 300c and the Crossfire) and they are selling cars like crazy! Hell just how many awards has the 300c won at this point???

You have to admit DC's marketing is superior to GM's at this point. A perfect example is the Hemi. Here is a engine that makes less power than the old LS-1( it's target engine),let alone the LS-2. It still has an iron block. Yet it is percieved as top bannana in its class. GM has to develop better marketing for it's products, and perhaps some more agressive styling for it's cars to delineate itself from it's competitors. :z:
 

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GM can't lower prices much more. The biggest problem is, as many of you have said, they tend to shoot themselves in the foot. The GTO comes from Assey land :lol: , they get rid of the Camaro :jawdrop: , they get rid of Oldsmobile, but keep Buick :crazy: . God help them.

Tim
 

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When I look at GM's lineup, I see precisely one (1) car that seems to lead the world at its pricepoint. That's the Vette.

But that's all. I can't think of a single other product they make which I'd be interested in, or anybody I even know would be interested in.

In other news, they're hemmoraging market share to the Japanese, who basically don't need incentives to sell their cars. Toyota has a market cap large enough to buy BOTH GM and Ford outright! It's not rocket science to see that the US makers either have to develop a selection of real world class products, or go out of business. The writing is on the wall.

The same thing applies to a lesser extent for Ford. I think that unless something changes, we're seeing the last years of the US having a homegrown auto industry. The only thing keeping GM & Ford alive is SUVs & light trucks, and people are moving away from those back into cars. None of the US makers make cars people want to buy, and both of them have completely dropped the ball on hybrids.

Also, GM & Ford have improved their quality hugely over the 80's, but they're still far behind the best from Japan, and people know it. This certainly does not help them move vehicles.

Kinda sad to watch. It would not surprise me if in 15 years, there are no US car makers left, outside of ultra-niche stuff like Saleen.
 
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