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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am looking at upgrading the front rotor to the GM Motorsports, some call them the T1 rotors. You purchase them via a Chevy dealer. I have been looking for some technical comparison data for the GM Motorsports vs the stock. Somewhere I have seen a photograph of these rotors and the stock rotors side by side with a print out of the dimensional differences. Anybody know where I can find this data?

Also, Ken Fichtner is selling then for $89.95 per rotor is this a good price?

Thanks in advance.
:cheers:
 

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TX02Z06 said:
I am looking at upgrading the front rotor to the GM Motorsports, some call them the T1 rotors. You purchase them via a Chevy dealer. I have been looking for some technical comparison data for the GM Motorsports vs the stock. Somewhere I have seen a photograph of these rotors and the stock rotors side by side with a print out of the dimensional differences. Anybody know where I can find this data?

Also, Ken Fichtner is selling then for $89.95 per rotor is this a good price?

Thanks in advance.
:cheers:
The rotors are thicker plates when viewed down the vanes. The dealer can contact Service Parts Organization < SPO > @GM for dimensional particulars.

I believe these rotors came out of Ken Brown's stint with Corvette Racing @ GM Raceshop.

Many roadracers view rotors as sacrificial parts and run the stock rotor as it's less unsprung weight. Making sure of lateral runout and adequate cooldown is key to keeping any rotor unwarped.

Fitchner probably can go over dimensional difference on the phone with you... they can probably a/b them in realtime.

Good luck!
 

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BrianK said:
True enough.. But more thermal mass is a Good Thing. Especially given the number of folks reporting problems with fluid boiling.
I don't disagree. Racing, like life, is full of trade-offs.

I'd like to see a better "designed for racing" brake cooling duct kit politic'ed through and offered through Performance Parts.
 

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Check with Bob Benedix (corvetteseller), he gives us better deals than Ken and supports the site.......

Send him a PM and post in the OEM GM Parts forum......

JC
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
1fast dog and BrainK I agree with what you guys have to say. "Racing has many trade offs and there is a need of thermal mass." So what I have concluded for the type of track events that this car does I am going to trade the higher unsprung weight for reliability. Basically I want to drive the car home or back to the hotel room at the end of the day. Now if I trailered the car to the event a different solution would result.

Also a thanks for the Bob Benedix recommendation. I am giving him a call after this post.

Thanks all and have a Happy Thanksgiving
:D
 

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TX02Z06 said:
1fast dog and BrainK I agree with what you guys have to say. "Racing has many trade offs and there is a need of thermal mass." So what I have concluded for the type of track events that this car does I am going to trade the higher unsprung weight for reliability. Basically I want to drive the car home or back to the hotel room at the end of the day. Now if I trailered the car to the event a different solution would result.

Also a thanks for the Bob Benedix recommendation. I am giving him a call after this post.

Thanks all and have a Happy Thanksgiving
:D
High temp brake fluid...COOL DOWN LAPS, COOL DOWN LAPS, COOL DOWN LAPS... not so secret "secret" to rotor life on a track car.

I think you will like the Motorsports rotors. ... Did I mention cool down laps?:D
 

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TX02Z06 said:
1fast dog and BrainK I agree with what you guys have to say. "Racing has many trade offs and there is a need of thermal mass." So what I have concluded for the type of track events that this car does I am going to trade the higher unsprung weight for reliability. Basically I want to drive the car home or back to the hotel room at the end of the day. Now if I trailered the car to the event a different solution would result.

Also a thanks for the Bob Benedix recommendation. I am giving him a call after this post.

Thanks all and have a Happy Thanksgiving
:D
hIGH TEMP BRAKE FLUID...COOL DOWN LAPS, COOL DOWN LAPS, COOL DOWN LAPS... not so secret secret to rotor life.

I think you will like the Motorsports rotors. ... Did I mention cool down laps?:D
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
High temp brake fluid...COOL DOWN LAPS, COOL DOWN LAPS, COOL DOWN LAPS... not so secret "secret" to rotor life on a track car.

Oh so true would not disagree.

My thoughts are I figure the better rotors are needed what when you don't have a cool down lap.

Happen to me twice two months ago when a Viper went off the track. It was a defferent Viper each time. When I got around the track the black flag was out for everyone to Hot Pit.

Last month in 60 F weather there were two F body drivers with cracked rotors. So personal experience says to me it happens and I don't want it to happen to me.

But your are right COOL Down laps prevent a lot of brake system problems. You did say Cool Down laps right

:cheers:
 

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T1 rotor part #s

LF 12480155
RF 12480156
LR 10445859
RR 10445858

Chevy also has some grooved ones available but I don't know the part #'s
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I recently read a post by a new Z06 owner who felt he should be able to abuse his brakes in any way and get them warrantied. His burning dust boots were due to 'cheap' GM parts. Of course he is a novice and living in a fantasy world. Drive it like a race car, maintain it like a race car.
This is a very good statememt.:D

I would like to add: GM did not fully design the Z06 to be an all out race car. Thus there will be systems that will fail under racing conditions. So we as owners must be aware of which systems. I personally feel, no back up data, so I am in opinion mode, that the rotors where manufactured by the lowest bidder.

I sure hope the Motorsport Rotors that I am purchasing where not made by the lowest bidder, but to some kind of specifications. Or am I being the novice :-? :cry: :-?

DJ Worm thanks for the part numbers. Do you think I could run with these rotors in the stock auto cross class? Or is there a visual different over stock that will be notice?

I don't expect a performace gain from using these rotors, I expect to be able to drive home or to the hotel using the same rotors that got me there.

Thanks all and again have a very happy Thanksgiving

It is time for my nap to much "good stuff"


:guiness: :cheers:
 

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Front brake cooling ducts

FYI, Doug Rippie makes some front brake cooling ducts. The stock cooling ducts just dump air into the front wheel well. The DRM ducts continue on to blow air onto the caliper. He says that this has eliminated the problem with cooked calipers. You might consider these. <http://www.dougrippie.com/>
 

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They are....

....visually the same as the stock Z06 rotors but have slightly thicker "cheeks". Order them, get them cryo'd, exchange them for the stock rotors, get the stock rotors cryo'd and use them for a backup set.

Be sure to burnish the new rotors and/or pads in correctly.
3-5 runs to 80-100 MPH then hard stop to 20 MPH, put it away immediately for 24 hours to cool down overnite then repeat the heat cycle again. Its always good to have a good excuse handy while doing this! "Well Officer I was just......"

Its also a good time to do a quick brake bleed. I tap the calipers with a rubber mallet while doing a hot bleed to be sure all the air is out.

Stock rotors are made in Brazil.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Stock rotors are made in Brazil.
:roll:

My suspicions confirmed!!!:roll: :roll: The lowest bidder !!!

Order them, get them cryo'd, exchange them for the stock rotors,
This is a good idea. :D

I now question the metallurgy in the T1 rotors.:-?

The reason I bring this up is on Wednesday I got into a conversation with a Metallurgist and vintage racer who questions the whole "heat treating" (cryogenically) of the rotors to get out the stress. Now I am not a Metallurgist, I had my material science class in college and I remember stress reliving being a good thing. Your past posts about using cryo'd stock rotors with excellent results supports heating treating stock rotors.

However, the Engineer in me says that if the rotors are manufactured properly (no internal stresses and are of the correct thickness) then you should never have any problems for the appication the rotors where intended to be used for. That is how I view the T1 rotors.

So DJ are you telling me that the T1 are not quite up to the task as they are also manufactured with poor quaility for their intended use?

Or (I recall you are a pilot, believe me I respect the pilot's attitude and altitude towards having the highest factor of safety possible, can not pit when things break in the air) it's the pilot in you that want's to insure all possibilities of failure are limited.

Thanks for all the information you have provided thus far.
 

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Dave, there will always be *MAJOR* residual stress in any production type rotor. Even if they used really good vacuum degassed steel (any they do not), you would have the stress from the integrated mounting flange/bell.

You essentially have a heatsink attached to the outside rotor face but not the inside. Can you say potato chip?

In terms of quality, Porsche may be an exception here.

That's one of the reasons why you will always see "real" rotors mounted on aluminum hats. There's a big difference in material and heat treat in an AP or a Coleman rotor and a stockish rotor.
 

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Stock GM rotors are engineered correctly....

...and they do a nice and respectable job for what they were intended to do; stop a 3000 lb car which never goes over 65 in normal everyday driving!! Yeah right!! My wife says that the day I observe the speed limit will mark the onset of Alzheimer's. She has in fact Christened any interstate that I am currently on "The Donabahn" (the D in DJ).

Chevy stock rotors are pushed to the limit in my daily driving let alone serious AutoX or an occasional track foray. In those elements they are seriously overtaxed. But what do you want for $89.95 retail? I use every trip to work and every trip to the corner grocery as practice. I "clip "every apex and every manhole cover is a slalom. I do this in a controlled and safe manner never exceeding the speed limit in town, but I am precise.

Alas, I do race in a stock class. If Brembo's were allowed I would have those fine pieces of metallurgy on my car. In the mean time I do what I can. Cryo'd rotors, good brake pads, best brake fluid I can afford, bleed brakes often, proper heat cycle and
initial "burnish in", use brakes sparingly (see Second Rule of Italian Driving below), do not use brakes hard until warmed up, car should be completely dynamically balanced when brakes are used, cool down, cool down, cool down.

Above all do not race to the car wash and spray cold water on red hot rotors. I saw a Mustang do this the other day and heard the "Crack" as the steam poured out of the wheel well.

Second Rule of Italian Driving:
- Brakes are only to be used to stop,
- If your using the brakes you are going to slow, and
- Brakes should only be used to get a better look at a truely gorgeous woman.

BTW, First Rule of Italian Driving:
- What's behind you is not important!
- therefore rearview mirrors are irrelevant.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
There's a big difference in material and heat treat in an AP or Coleman rotor and a stockish rotor.

Chevy stock rotors are pushed to the limit in my daily driving let alone serious AutoX or an occasional track foray. In those elements they are seriously overtaxed. But what do you want for $89.95 retail?
OK guys I have just become confused :-? :-? :-?
(Pretty much my normal state of mind just ask my wife or sons)

I have all ready purchased the T1 rotors for two reasons:

:D I think they are manufactured better then the stock rotor, better material and heat treat.

:D They look really close to stock.

Yet, I get the impression from both of you, they are really not that much better then stock.

Is this true:-? :-?

I got to add thanks for the information thus far, just have to clear up my confusion.
 

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http://www.z06vette.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2605&highlight=rotors

y2khardtop said:
These are definitely NOT oem rotors that have been machined. The specs are identical (ie they are not thick-cheek like the other GM rotors), but the casting is entirely new. They are Not stamped "made in brazil" like the other sets, and the "vanes" are slightly thicker than the oems. The finish is much shinier than the oems, but I don't think they are plated. They weight 36lb, just like the oems and thick-cheeks.

The thick-cheek rotors have the same overall dimension as these rotors, but the "cheeks" are approx 1/32" thicker, inside and outside surfaces. Should last longer before cracking.
An interesting note, where-as the oem and thick-cheeks are CAST with the min thickenes 30.3mm, these have the min-thickness STAMPED in, and it is listed in standard units (1.195").

Dave

 
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