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Since we redynoed our 02 with the complete T-1 package, no one has said a word.

I was frankly shocked by the results. In fact, maybe folks think we are up to something.

The truth is, that we can duplicate the +30 RWHP on any 2002!

Skepticism is a good thing, and we can understand that going from an astouding 16.2 RWHP with just the T-1 intake, to over 30 RWHP with the rest of the T-1 package seems impossible. It's not.

We need someone, preferably from the forum, to travel to Halltech with a virgin stock 2002 Z06. Untouched. We need the car for 1 day. We will provide a loaner 2000 C5 for your use. If you want to hang around for a day, that's ok too.

You will purchase the T-1 package for our $1,699.00 forum price, and here is what we promise.

We will dyno the car stock, you should come with us. Three to five baseline pulls, recording everything.

Back to our shop. I will personally install the entire T-1 Package.

Back to the dyno shop and redyno.


If we cannot add at least 30 RWHP to your stock pulls, the installation will be free! This is four hours of installation time.

I can make this offer, since our very best stock dyno was 350.8 RWHP. Of 9 stock dynos, our average was 344 RWHP, which coincidentally is 405 HP.

Our best dyno with the T-1 SideWinder only was 367 RWHP which took place 25 minutes after the 350.8.

Our best dyno with the T-1 package was 381.2 RWHP prior to the B&B headers, which added another 3.1 RWHP.

How about Powershifter?

Let's meet, bury the hatchet, and get your car deep into the elevens.

Jim Hall
[email protected]
 

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"The AFR Calibrator was used in the dyno testing, and is not part of the kit." How will this effect the outcome if any?
 
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Good question

The AFR is only set to 2% lean on High. It was taken offline during our testing with a 3 to 4 RWHP loss. There is no way to tell if it will be needed on the 02 until AutoTap results are done.

The first pulls will be without the AFR. I would prefer that they not be a part of the package.

If it turns out that each 02 can pick up a few more HP by tweaking the a/f ratios, then we will offer it as an option. I think we can hit the 30 without it.

Jim
 
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Discussion Starter #6
Haven't tested an 01 yet

Come on down and we'll find out.

Jim;)
 

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Jim

More of us than post here have '01's...............

PowerShifter & Rangers are also '01's...........

I would definitely love to see the results of the same set up on the '01's............

This would DOUBLE you're potential customer base.......

If you're package will add 30rwhp to an '01, then I would definitely be a player.........

This is MORE than a cam upgrade ALONE, and is bolt on.........with NO emission , idle, control issue's...........:)
 

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Alright guys, have seen a lot of doubting thomas' out there, wanting vendors to back up their claims, well Jim has certainly stepped up and is willing to put his money where his mouth is.

If I was west coast I would certainly think about it seriously.

Here is a vendor willing to provide the ultimate in unbiased test, someone take him up on it...

Jim, way to go...

Mark
 
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Re: Jim

ZO6LS6 said:
More of us than post here have '01's...............

PowerShifter & Rangers are also '01's...........

I would definitely love to see the results of the same set up on the '01's............

This would DOUBLE you're potential customer base.......

If you're package will add 30rwhp to an '01, then I would definitely be a player.........

This is MORE than a cam upgrade ALONE, and is bolt on.........with NO emission , idle, control issue's...........:)
Most of the 01s have non-stock engines now. I would be happy to do the same on a virgin stock 01. It should make the same or more RWHP.

Heres why: When I dynoed our 02, most of the pulls were 344, 345 and when the knock retard kicked in, it dropped to 337 or lower. Most members thought I was sandbagging the stock runs, since I was one of the first to dyno an 02 back in August.

The 01s have a more restrictive stock intake system than the 02s to begin with, so the delta should be logically higher. (More restrictive airbox and screened MAF)

The 01 also has larger injectors, which may prove to be fine for the new air without new injectors or the AFR Calibrator.

I had no plans at all to change the injectors, until I reviewed the AutoTap Long Term Trims, and tested them. They put out 255cc/min @43PSI compared to our RC Injectors 310cc/min.

Our injectors are slightly rich for the tables set up in the PCM, but they bring the LT Trims back to -2 to -7 depending on the fuel cell.
Using the AFR we can dial the High slightly lean and the new fuel added to the LT Trims in Closed Loop, bring the cells back to 0.

The reason the AFR works better than programming, is it has a +20 to -20% adjustment. As you add components (NOS) or heads and cam, you can dial in the LT Trims back to 0.

Why is it important to have the Long Term Trims as close to 0 as possible?

The LT Trims are goverened by the average fuel added or deleted in each of the closed loop fuel cells to bring them back to 14.6:1.

No intake, heads, cam, headers, or other custom parts can change the GM factory 14.6:1 air fuel ratio for closed loop fuel cells. Closed loop means that your PCM is monitoring the oxygen level in the exhaust through your first set of 02 sensors and telling the PCM to add or delete fuel.

The short term trims, instantly adapt in each cell, with the average fuel trimming showing up in the long term averages.

When you go into cell 22 (Wide Open Throttle), the PCM quits looking at the 02 sensors for its a/f ratio (That why it is called Open Loop 2). Instead it has a factory fuel enrichment code built into it which starts in the 13s, drops into the 12s and ends close to 13 again. This fuel table is perfect for all applications of fuel in a normally aspirated LS6, under most circumstances. Some additional fuel or leanest does not make too much difference on the dyno, within a certain tolerance.

The problem is that WOT takes a snapshot of the fuel cell you were in JUST BEFORE you enter Open Loop. It then calculates the additional fuel that cell had to add, and adds it on top of fuel enrichment. SMALL DYNO NUMBERS LIKE 12 TO 16 RWHP is the result.

When you add a T-1 to your car (2002), the new airflow is seen instantly by the 02 sensors and new fuel is added. After a few miles, the LONG TERM trims go to around 15 to 20%. That's not a problem, since GM allows the aftermarket up to 23% new fuel before the lean code trips. P0171 or P0174 does not mean your car is running lean. It simply means that for 6 seconds, one of the fuel cells added 23% more fuel to that cell to get the car at 14.6:1

I hope this make sense. It is probably the most important thing to understand, and I have been researching this stuff for over 3 years now.

Why larger Injectors?: The 2002 Z06, with the T-1 has very small injectors. 255cc/min @43psi, which is the same injector size as my 2000 LS1 coupe. When 310cc/min injectors are installed, here's what happens:

The computer is telling the injectors to spray let's say for an example 3ms pulse width for a specific cell. That was based on the 255cc injector. Now with the 310cc injector, that same pulse width puts more fuel into the cylinder, the 02 sensor goes, what's this? More fuel? It backs off the LT Trims from their high of say 20% back down to 0 to -7%.

Now when you enter WOT, the LT Trims does not add fuel on fuel enrichment, which brings the WOT cell into its best power range.

So, when you add new airflow, the Long Term Trims adjust on the + side, which means more fuel to bring the trims to 14.6:1. If that new compensatory fuel goes beyond the computer threshold of 23%, it sends a lean code message (MIL).

When you add bigger injectors, they bring the LT Trims back down to baseline (If they are sized properly) allowing the best power.

The 2001 Z06- The injector size is slightly smaller than the 310cc/min @43psi injectors, which makes me think that they might dial in perfectly with the T-1, without the need for injectors or the AFR.

Volunteers are welcome, but the car must be virgin stock.

One more thing. Our T-1 package has gone through a few changes since its introduction, such as spark plugs. We dyno everthing we sell, and I guarantee that our dyno numbers are true, repeatable, and without any hoccus pokus.

Whoever decides to take us up on this, should be a trusted member of the forum so that everything can be up front. We are going to have our ride at Dyno Day at R&D this month. Everyone is welcome.

Jim Hall
 

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Re: Jim

ZO6LS6 said:
More of us than post here have '01's...............

This would DOUBLE you're potential customer base.......
Hey bubs, have you checked the registry lately?

493 - 02's / 641 - 01's

Straight up though, we need to get some 01's tested Jim!!!

:cheers:
 

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I sure wish that I lived closer the California :( because I sure would take Jim up on his gracious offer and wait pantingly for those 30+ Hp added to my beloved Zee! Way to go Jim, thats putting your reputation on the line! Bill :cheers:
 

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Good gesture Jim! :cheers: to you for offering this. I would volunteer if you were closer! Hey, have you ever thought about leaving sunny California, and the sandy beaches for Michigan? Just think how much more hp you would get with our cooler temps! :lol: It is about 38 F. right now, and 3 inches of cold snow predicted for tomorrow!

Zip :z: :z:
 

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If I was a left coast resident I'd be there in a NY minute.;)

Bully for you, Jim! I salute you. There should be others out there like yourself willing to step up to the plate and "put your money where your mouth is".
 

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Jim:

Tomorrow the Sidewinder gets installed on my '01. I pulled 339 HP and 345 TQ (stock) on Jan 10. I'll be seeing the dyno man again next week to compare. I'm heading to AZ for the auction. When I get back next week I'll buy the balance of the T1 kit and AFR. After installed I'll see Mr. Dyno again and pass along the numbers.

Would love to do it in Huntington, but the southland is abit far from Maryland.

Can't wait to pass the number along. I really want to get into the 11 second club.

Gary
 

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Jim:

Forgot to add...my Air/Fuel was 11.4 on the 1/10 dyno pull. What's the optimum?

Gary
 
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Discussion Starter #19
A/F Ratio

Every car has a sweet spot for A/F ratio, but it's not in the elevens.

We are in the high 12s.

Our AFR Calibrator helped us dial in the sweet spot on the dyno for maximum HP. That's one of the reasons we are making 448 HP with the T-1 Package.

Jim
 
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Discussion Starter #20
z06175mph said:
Jim,

How many participants are you looking for?

BTW, You also got mail.

thx,
[email protected]
We now have two onboard. One will be bringing his virgin stock 02 down from the Bay area on Friday January 25th, for the challange. Another the weekend after.

Once we prove our numbers with two more 2002s making 380+ RWHP, we will not need to give anything away to make our point.

Since our mods are making 381.2 RWHP, without any BS, I know we can duplicate those numbers over and over again with the same components. Some 02s dyno better stock than others, which should make better final numbers than our Z06.
 
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