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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey Guys,

This is a duplicate of info I posted at the tail end of the GT Crash thread but figured it was important enough for it's own thread.

With all the discussion of the Hans Device, I went back and checked the search feature to find the details on another device simmilar to the Hans called the R3 by LFT Tech that was posted a while back.

Looks simmilar to a Hans but runs down your back and looks like it may be better in side and multiple impact.

I'm planning on buying something, and this R3 has me intrigued.
 

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Pictures?? Links??
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hey Chris,

I do not think they are a vendor, so I did not put in a link.

www.lfttech.com

I just got a response to my E-mail and it's $995 with a 2 week lead time.

Not looking to offend the moderators, but safety info is important stuff right ?
 

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I was thinking the same thing, I like the concept though.
 

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The HANS device will work in an oblique collision IF the seat belts are anchored and installed correctly and if they are tight enough. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, especially at DE days, many belt/seat installs are not correct and many drivers don't tighten nor do they retighten the belts during their run so any system will not operate as designed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hey Speedpup,

From what I can gather, you either fasten a pair of fitted foam blocks to your seat that are as thick as the R3 or you hollow out the padding in your seat to fit around it.

On my cobra seat, the back pad velcro's out and I'd get a spare to cut up and use with it.

I'm under the impression that the "in seat" mounting only means that the R3 fits into the seat, and you could sit down before strapping it on.

I'd assume that in an emergency it stays hooked to you since you'd be jumping out with your helmet on.
 

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Arnoldir,

I posted this on another thread and may be of interest to you. I think all HNR are better in a tight cockpit but some fuction beter than others in a tight cockpit. R3 is a cool device but there is not much testing. What happens in a rear impact for example. Why not a flat back plate vs. a turtle shell? Strenght to resist the forward impact at the expense of driving a shaped object into the spine on rear impact? Foam on the seat may make the back feel better but is like nothing is there in a impact so the brace pinches left and right on the spine right where the spinal nerves exit the spine?? I don't know. That R3 looks awesome. Someone else will need to report how it has faired in independant crash studies. I think only HANS has been tested at the higher G-loads because HANS is in bed with Damiler and they have the higher G test sled vs. say Wayne State but I don't know. Anyone else know about this?

So here was my other post:
READ before you buy a HANS:
HANS is a great device and every sactioning body allows them but there is more to the device. Safety is a system. If you don't have the entire system you may be better off with say an ISAAC. First you have to live by the rules of who you race with. Here you are talking about H&N. But sanctioning bodies also regulate other parts of the safety system that effect HANS. They will regulate 5point or 6point or hybrid hans harnesses or 2" lap belts etc.... Assuming you have read the rules or race in very loose club level with no rules you can build the car the way you want. For example some rules do not allow welding the cage to the a- pillers or welding to suspension. But we know that welding to these points stiffens and makes these cars tougher. Likewise you need to have the safety system work in concert. For example a HANS does you nothing if you don't buckle your harness. From all the research I have been able to gather HANS works best in a really tight environment. Even rumors have some element of truth and if some of the HANS rumors are true such as slipping shoulder belts upon impact then the safety system is failing. A huge number of sactioning bodies like HANS and many have a cludge to allow fixes to HANS problems (eventhough H&D think their device is perfect). For example "full containment" seats assist you in lateral impacts and hold your body into the seat so that shoulder belts reduce slipping off HANS. Scroth has tested and make two designs of HANS harness. The older Hybrid 2"/3" shoulder belt universally available ($300ish) and a newer very rare and very expensive dual shoulder strap (4 belt) design ($600). Also, Over the years HANS has altered the mounting requirements for successful use of the device. What we are told today is different from a few years ago when the device was "perfect". So that is the primary cobbled up method you need for the best HANS results. The cost of the HANS is only the first expense. It costs you 600 bucks for the 4belt dual shoulder HANS harness. The cheapest 5point is 60 bucks. I dumped an 8lb carbon OMP shell for a POS aluminium built like a brick sh%thouse Ultrashield custom fullcontainment seat for $1200.00 with shipping. If you can't weld and fabricate you will need a welder to fab up your harness bar to accept and firmly control your shoulder belts in the right position. Zipties will not do it for those thinking you can use a HANS with just a harness bar and stock seats. You may need even more $ in fabrication if you do the 4 shoulderbelt harness because the body belt is mounted in a different place than the HANS belt. That fab costs you more money. On the other hand the Isaac can be used under all conditions with any harness and any seat since it claims action in 360 degrees. Your costs for safety gear end with the single ISAAC purchase. Yes all the other stuff helps and improves your safety sytem but the ISAAC does not need all the other junk to function as the engineer intended. This IMO is a huge advantage. To some the primary fear is head loads but there is more that can be injured than just the head and full containment makes sense but costs much more. The only problem I see with the Isaac is the lack of SFI certification regardless of the political value of SFI and the lack of generalized acceptance by many pro sanctioning bodies. I am no pro but the pros carry weight. I think they know something I don't know. Even SCCA had some issues with it not allowing ISAAC but not restricting you from wearing it. It was confusing. I have used both devices for a couple years each. I was very happy with my ISAAC and it was the most like wearing no device at all. The HANS is very restrictive and it is like two condoms...how much fun is that? I now only use the HANS as my tintop cockpit has been modified to use it and I have succumbed to herd mentality. If ISAAC could be allowed as an alternative device in say F1 or CART etc... I would flip a 180 and go back to ISAAC.


So that's one user's opinion YMMV...
 

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Wow fatBillyBob! Stop and breath after that one! :p :p :p

I look forward to seeing you out at California Speedway next weekend. Do you know which car you are driving, yet?
:usa: :usa: :usa:
 

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Olitho said:
Wow fatBillyBob! Stop and breath after that one! :p :p :p

I look forward to seeing you out at California Speedway next weekend. Do you know which car you are driving, yet?
:usa: :usa: :usa:
Hi Oli,

Yes try my post all in one breath! The safety industry is really complicated. It took me a huge amount of time to research this moving target called safety systems. It is an amazing topic and it is a real bummer when people buy stuff then have to rebuy later. So hopefully this will get some guys in the right direction so they will not have to reinvent the wheel. My racecar goes offline after next weekend to get all this junk I posted about above welded hacked and sawed into my car. I'll start out with the Ferrari since I have a decent track setup but not like I posted about above. It still has what is reasonably O.K., HANS, 5 points, and a bolt in cage with a carbon shell. I have nothing in my Z except DOT and I hate to run a car this way. I keep saying maybe I'll get my act together but I keep having setbacks. I spent all day today seting up my tube bender and plasma cutter. Well another waste. I started learning the plasma cutter and the thing dies on my. What a POS! I think I'll just stick to a sawsall and a 4" die grinder with cutting discs and a grinder unless I can find a decent plasma cutter. The real advantage of plasma is you can get in tight and cut circles which is great for fishmouthing rollcage joints. The negative is the metal cuts and drips like an icecream cone and sticks to the tube or peans over and you still haev to grind the carp out of it. I think SV will let me on the track with a totally stock car and dot belts.
 

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Howdy FatBillyBob:

Yes, www.speedventures.net will let you out up through the open passing RED/5 groups with standard DOT safety equipment as long as you have a hardtop. Convertibles require a roll-cage or roll-hoops.

You can check out my Z16 when there to get a better idea of what you might want to do with your set-up.

:ity: :ity: :ity:
 
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