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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have watched the first 4 F1 races this season and have just spoken with some friends and family in Europe and they have imparted some interesting facts....some things that we will be seeing in the future...and some we won't.

1. Ferrari has had trouble with their new model this year with a Barrichello DNF again today. Schumaucher failed to finish on the podem in the first 3 races but got second today pushing from 13th on the grid. The problem with Ferrari has been all gearbox. Seems they are using a new Carbon Fiber case Transaxle. The carbon Fiber does not dissapate heat readily and they have been frying tranny & diff bearings. They went to a larger cooler on Schumaucher's car which hurt Aerodynamics. I wonder how long it will be before we see a Carbon Fiber engine block ??

2. Renault's Mild Seven Team has surprisingly won the first 4 races with the rookie Spanish driver, who has won 3, being hard pressed by Schumacher at the end. The amazing thing with Renault and the other teams is that they are now allowing the engines to Rev to 19,000 RPM. In order to do this they went to a 7 speed sequential gear box. They need to keep the engines reved as the power band is very narrow between 14,000 and 18,000 RPM. These cars just scream.

3. Along that line, with FIA's allowance for unlimited Rev's, they also require the engines to last 2 races. Ie. a team must use the same engine without a rebuild or any maintainance save changing the oil.

4. Renault is working on developing their RT28 engine which will Rev to 28,000 RPM for next year.

5. Most powerful engines this year are Honda @ 955 HP, Renault at 850 HP and then Ferrari.

6. Renault/Mild Seven are using revolutionary Aerodynamics especially in the front wing area, debutted today.

7. Most of the cars are using water injected Brake calipers & caliper pistons for cooling as seen on the Williams cars last season.
 

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Neat stuff -- one of the comments that stuck out today for me was that Toyota had a $400M budget. The other was the carbon fiber brakes at $10k a pop...

:yowser:

John.
 

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"Toyota had a $400M budget"

Its amazing what you can do when you actually MAKE money selling cars rather than barely breaking even or losing... cough.. Ford... cough.. GM....

"I wonder how long it will be before we see a Carbon Fiber engine block ??"

Last I heard this is specifically prohibited by the rules.

"Renault is working on developing their RT28 engine which will Rev to 28,000 RPM for next year."

Does this mean that they are actually going to start using either hydraulic or pneumatic operated valve actuators!?
For years now I've heard rumors that this has been in the works, but if they can actually get this working then that would be pretty awesome.

Just clarify what this implies and why its exciting to me...

Imagine taking GM/Saab's pioneering tech with the variable compression ratio engine. Crudely speaking it operates by swiveling the entire head assembly up and down like a clam.

Combined with a cam-less engine and DOD (disp. on demand).

I can imagine a 4.OL Twin Turbo H or V-8 that at max boost (min compression) would flow like a 7L (imagine 800-900 hp from the factory). But with the variable compression and infinite valve programming have the throttle response of a naturally aspirated (no turbo lag). FURTHERMORE at low rpms and part throttle the engine would flow so much less due to no turbo boost and cylinder deactivation efficiency would rival that of "high power output hybrids", the sickening idea of a hybrid for the sports car enthusiast.

Consider that the IC engine is most efficient at WOT, the point of hybrids is to store energy more efficiently for the part throttle applications where the IC is most inefficient. So with this type of engine what effectively happens is that that engine operates on a sliding scale of flow rates... While cruising the engine would flow like a little 2L at near WOT (peak efficiency) then when stomping the smiles for miles lever its a screaming 7L beast pounding 850hp to the floor. And remember infinite valve variability means it always acts as smooth as butter.

All of this by just combining that already exists... 2 parts of it already exist under one roof GM's DOD and variable compression.
Drew
 

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DJWorm said:
I have watched the first 4 F1 races this season and have just spoken with some friends and family in Europe and they have imparted some interesting facts....some things that we will be seeing in the future...and some we won't.

1. Ferrari has had trouble with their new model this year with a Barrichello DNF again today. Schumaucher failed to finish on the podem in the first 3 races but got second today pushing from 13th on the grid. The problem with Ferrari has been all gearbox. Seems they are using a new Carbon Fiber case Transaxle. The carbon Fiber does not dissapate heat readily and they have been frying tranny & diff bearings. They went to a larger cooler on Schumaucher's car which hurt Aerodynamics. I wonder how long it will be before we see a Carbon Fiber engine block ??

2. Renault's Mild Seven Team has surprisingly won the first 4 races with the rookie Spanish driver, who has won 3, being hard pressed by Schumacher at the end. The amazing thing with Renault and the other teams is that they are now allowing the engines to Rev to 19,000 RPM. In order to do this they went to a 7 speed sequential gear box. They need to keep the engines reved as the power band is very narrow between 14,000 and 18,000 RPM. These cars just scream.

3. Along that line, with FIA's allowance for unlimited Rev's, they also require the engines to last 2 races. Ie. a team must use the same engine without a rebuild or any maintainance save changing the oil.

4. Renault is working on developing their RT28 engine which will Rev to 28,000 RPM for next year.

5. Most powerful engines this year are Honda @ 955 HP, Renault at 850 HP and then Ferrari.

6. Renault/Mild Seven are using revolutionary Aerodynamics especially in the front wing area, debutted today.

7. Most of the cars are using water injected Brake calipers & caliper pistons for cooling as seen on the Williams cars last season.

You don't have to live in Europe to know about these changes. How long have you been watching F1? ;)

So you don't have to ask your European friends, F1 is switching to 2.4 liter V8's next year instead of the 3.0 liter V10's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
The previous 19,000 RPM Renault RT 23/24 and current RS25 engines are already camless using an electro-pneumatic valve actuator(s).

I will continue to talk with my Euro friends and especially family concerning F1. There is nothing like getting reliable info straight from the horses mouth. There is other neat stuff coming down the pipe.
 

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DJWorm said:
I will continue to talk with my Euro friends and especially family concerning F1. There is nothing like getting reliable info straight from the horses mouth. There is other neat stuff coming down the pipe.
You can get that from David Hobbs, Steve Matchett and Bob Varsha though. They don't hold anything back. You didn't tell me anything that I didn't already know from watching F1 practice, qualifying and the races. The announcers pack a lot of information in between the action.

Sal
 

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You didn't tell me anything that I didn't already know from watching F1 practice, qualifying and the races. The announcers pack a lot of information in between the action.
He said alot of things I didn't know. I don't get to watch the F1 broadcasts much (although I did get to see yesterday's race, most exciting F1 race I can remember), so I am happy he passed on the information.
 

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David Pintaric said:
I did get to see yesterday's race, most exciting F1 race I can remember
Wish I had remembered to tape the race. I was at an AutoCross over the weekend, and completely spaced the race.

I think the tech in Formula 1 is amazing, not sure about the new rules though.
 

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There is no reason that an engine block cannot be made from advanced composites, except that it has to be don correctly. The 2 biggest things are indeed heat transfer and using non-traditional matrix materials, since epoxy is very limited in temperature ceiling and operating temp. Other matrix systems such as PMR-15 which is not an epoxy but rather it is a polyimide can be used. PMR-15 has High strength and dimensional stability at elevated temperatures, moderate thermo-oxidative stability (TOS) and is microcrack resistant. It is good to over 600F wheras epoxy can go to 350F but really gets soft over 250F.

I really laugh when I hear people say that composites don't fatigue, I heard that when I was working on F-22 composite cockpit displays, and otherwise smart aerospace engineers thought that too (until we actually tested them)! I heard that the other day on a F1 show on TV and I wonder where people get that kind of nonsense. Composites have a totally different fatigue mechanisim due to the difference between the fiber and the matrix but do indeed fatigue and with the 2 race requirement, this might be an issue, but it is not impossible.
 

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ghoffman said:
There is no reason that an engine block cannot be made from advanced composites, except that it has to be don correctly. The 2 biggest things are indeed heat transfer and using non-traditional matrix materials, since epoxy is very limited in temperature ceiling and operating temp. Other matrix systems such as PMR-15 which is not an epoxy but rather it is a polyimide can be used. PMR-15 has High strength and dimensional stability at elevated temperatures, moderate thermo-oxidative stability (TOS) and is microcrack resistant. It is good to over 600F wheras epoxy can go to 350F but really gets soft over 250F.

I really laugh when I hear people say that composites don't fatigue, I heard that when I was working on F-22 composite cockpit displays, and otherwise smart aerospace engineers thought that too (until we actually tested them)! I heard that the other day on a F1 show on TV and I wonder where people get that kind of nonsense. Composites have a totally different fatigue mechanisim due to the difference between the fiber and the matrix but do indeed fatigue and with the 2 race requirement, this might be an issue, but it is not impossible.
It's not that it cannot be done it's against the rules. They are forbidden to use exotic materails in the block, crank, cam, and heads


http://www.f1technical.net/article4.html
 

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All that tech stuff is way over my head, but Michaels' run through the pack to second place sure was cool to watch. That one pass in the chicane :jawdrop:
 

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SpeedChannel is showing the broadcast on this Friday (29th). Schu, despite not winning, had the drive of the weekend. What a come-back!!!!!
 

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sleeper02Z06 said:
I'd like to know the piston speed at 19,000rpm!! :jammin: Anyone know the stroke on these things?

If you knew it would be because your one of the main mechanics or you would be dead by now :bang:

F1 is my favorite sport(drag racing 2nd) and I have to say the technology is wonderful and the best, Michael did a wonderful job this weekend but Alonso held up for 12 laps while the king of F1 was on his tail, Alonso did some great driving , but like always the Ferrari seemed to lack in Hp to catch Alonsos car...

as for Toyota having $400m budget , there just repeating History again, they come in Full throddle, not win the Championship, Cry their way home and not come back for another decadee :-?
 

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David Pintaric said:
He said alot of things I didn't know. I don't get to watch the F1 broadcasts much (although I did get to see yesterday's race, most exciting F1 race I can remember), so I am happy he passed on the information.
I'm not disputing that he had a lot of great information. It's just the way that he presented it. He acted like he had all this great inside information from friends and family in Europe and it's basically public record that ANY true F1 fan would know.

Sal
 

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yeah, good to hear good 'ol boys from USA starting to warm up for some real racing;). CBS got lucky with their choice of races. btw alonso is not a rookie - kid's been around for awhile and set some records already. oh and there is no way honda has 105 bhp on everyone else.

www.pitpass.com
www.f1-live.com

a couple of good sites if you care to keep up with the sport.
 

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scotts said:
All that tech stuff is way over my head, but Michaels' run through the pack to second place sure was cool to watch. That one pass in the chicane :jawdrop:

Yes, what a race! What was so great is it wasn't all won or lost in the pits. That last 12 laps of cat and mouse was as good as racing gets. The 22 year old Spaniard Alonso sure proved himself as he made no real errors with Michael hounding him at every juncture. Fantastic. :D

F1 has been a parade for the last few years with Michael and Ferrari being so dominant. This year promises to be a real dogfight. Heck, F1 may be as much fun to watch this year as the Speed World Challenge, which for my money is day-in and day-out the best racing available on TV.
 

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That was the best/most exciting F1 race in years. Actually some "racing" going on out there instead of follow the leader.

Last year it was getting boring watching him win all the time, and there I sit sunday pulling for shu-e :)

I like(ed) Derek Daly when he announced IndyCar back in the '90s. Has more "emotion/excitement" in his voice.

Last year SpeedTV did a technical piece on the carbon fiber/titanium composite gearbox BAR was running in the '04 car. Amazing stuff.

Hard to believe using an ultra-light block would cause a big shift in cg on those, as low as the block sits in the tub, but I guess any ballast they can add on the belly helps, and it's what they are after.
 

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The more well-heeled teams (Ferrari being one) used to use beryllium in their engines. This greatly reduced weight in the top of the engine and maintained excellent strength. The stuff is so expensive that only a few could afford it. It was outlawed a few years ago because it was seen as unfair (the lesser teams could not afford it). The weight up high in the car (relatively speaking) made a big difference in the balance.
 

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2MchFun said:
The more well-heeled teams (Ferrari being one) used to use beryllium in their engines. This greatly reduced weight in the top of the engine and maintained excellent strength. The stuff is so expensive that only a few could afford it. It was outlawed a few years ago because it was seen as unfair (the lesser teams could not afford it).
Yeah. I added some beryllium to my Viagra. Makes it really stiff but really light.... :lol:
 
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