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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Now I dont have that much of a background in American cars (I grew up around German cars) but I do know the old muscle cars were fast as hell and sounded really mean. Comparing the Z06 to the older cars, I think there might be a few that are a little faster in a straight line but are there any that handle as well as the Z06? I think the Z06 is the best all around package muscle car that has yet to be built; fast and excellent handling.

I might be wrong and if I am please let me know what cars were better or can compare to the Z06. :D

Tommy
Cant wait to have a Z06
 

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I don't really think of the Z as a muscle car but rather a sports car. When I hear muscle car I think of camaro, firebird, mustangs, olds, etc something crude with brute strength HP. Blowers, supercharges, etc...
 

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LZ-1 now theres a muscle car for ya'.
 

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Damn, I really need to learn how to type fast and not make so many typo's anyway.

I ment to say 69' ZL-1 All aluninum, block, heads and intake.
427CI 585 HP stock
1\4: 10.9 @132 mph

Only three made, two sold to public and one was crushed by Chevy after they showed it.
 

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muscle, sports, whatever.....It is the Best Car for anything/everything! The more I drive it, the more I love it!!!

Zippy :z: :z:
 

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Muscle car to me means:

1. Seats at least 4.
2. Massive cubic inches.
3. Quarter mile monster but handles like crap :lol: (though modifications in this area is pretty cool!).

I guess what I'm saying is... the muscle car era is dead?

Last seen, 1972?

The Corvette is a true sports car, always has been, always will be. :cheers:
 

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Only 3

Made, 2 sold to the public, 3rd, CRUSHED by GM...............:mad:

This has always been a REAL pet peeve of mine.............

The government...........ONE( supposed to be 1, there are rumors of 3-4) 1933 Augustus St.Gaudens minted...........( I think year correct).
Presented to ( again not sure), to the King of Siam.............
Value????????..........Priceless..............and a few years back, I saw one up for sale..........price was @ 1.6mil........was immediately CONFISCATED by the Fed's............as there were not supposed to be ANY.........( i.e. Illegal to own).

Just think, of ALL the vehicles, that have been so very rare, and were indiscriminately destroyed..........

Same with FDR, the ordered destruction, and melting of MILLIONS of $20.00 LIBS, AND ST'S...............
The VAST majority of what we have today.......have come from overseas.....where folks ( that were smart) kept their fortunes in American Gold Coins..........

Think of the muscle cars, that were exported OUT of this country........when the Japanese were $$$$$4 of the hill........along with the other world Billionaires..........gone for good from the American scene.......lost...............

A tad off track.....but you get the drift.......

Muscle Cars.............TRUE muscle cars.......So much power the car was useless as far as going ANYWHERE with WOT..........
What we affectionately call TORQUE today...........
I distinctly remember, the old GTO's........called, "The 140 mph car, with 60 mph brakes)...................:D
 

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The much heralded ZL1?

Correct me if I am wrong, but 10.9 at 132 was with open headers special torque convertor and slicks. Even with todays tires 585 HP with closed exhaust and real 'street' tires will only get you into the 11's. Also I doubt that engine made 585HP with closed exhaust.

My Dad's 65 vette weighs 2950 lbs and has 500+ HP, its best pass was 11.7. Well I am sure that there is more there with further tuning it runs pretty darn good, and that was with Hoosier DOT street tires.

Todays Vette blows away everything that came before it, although I would love to drive a midly tuned ZR1 engine in a Z06.
 

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What's a Muscle Car?

A few of the other posters mentioned this too, but in my mind the Vette was never a Muscle Car. This might be a bit nitpicky, but a muscle car was a very specific type of car that was born in the 1960s. I always viewed the Vette as a sports car or a GT car.

A Muscle Car was a midsize or large Detroit sedan or coupe that had 2 doors, 4 seats and a big a** engine with gobs of HP and torque. It was best exemplified by the Chevelle SS-396, GTO, Charger, Impala SS, Olds 442, etc.

Camaros, Mustangs, Barracudas, etc were technically not muscle cars either. They had their own designation of Ponycars.

Today, there's not many Muscle Cars left. I suppose the Monte Carlo SS might qualify, but it's a bit weak IMHO. The recent Impala SS might have qualified but it's no longer made and Muscle Cars weren't generally 4 door cars. The Buick GNX was a good example in its day I suppose.

I know this might be a bit picky and a question of semantics but it's a history that needs to be maintained.

Jim
 

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Re: The much heralded ZL1?

Zeanster said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but 10.9 at 132 was with open headers special torque convertor and slicks. Even with todays tires 585 HP with closed exhaust and real 'street' tires will only get you into the 11's. Also I doubt that engine made 585HP with closed exhaust.

I may be wrong, but I have heard and read this numerous times about the HP being underated for insurance reasons. The article I quoted this out of said only mods were slicks. Also I thought these cars had manual trans? I will have to research this further.
AS far as todays Z, I thought we had a couple guys in the high 11's with minor mods?
Anyway, there is no doubt our z's are the best sports car on the road today (prodcution) running with cars costing over $100,000.
That can really bruise an ego.:z: :yeadog:
 

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Y2K2Z06 said:
Muscle car to me means:

1. Seats at least 4.
2. Massive cubic inches.
3. Quarter mile monster but handles like crap :lol: (though modifications in this area is pretty cool!).

I guess what I'm saying is... the muscle car era is dead?

Last seen, 1972?


Sounds like a Viper +2 seats:)
 

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The Z06 Corvette is the quickest, most agile Corvette ever produced.(stock) The only exception would be the ZL1, which only 2 were delivered. A couple of things to remember too, is that the muscle cars of 30+years ago were rated at gross HP, today they are rated at net Hp. A 427/435HP Vette in 1967 which had a gross Hp rating would probably be around 360 net Hp today.

I have a collection of old Hot Rod, Motor Trend and Car&Driver magazines that I saved as a kid (1966-1972) and they had road tests on all the muscle cars and none ran the 1/4 mi. in the 12's, like the Z06 does. Most muscle cars ran in the 14's and a very few in the 13's. So, I am pretty confident in saying that the Z06 Corvette would beat any muscle car of years ago.

carzzy
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Thanks Carzzy, exactly the answer I was looking for. :)

BTW, has anyone seen the video of the 9.9 Sec MTI Z06 that is posted in the videos section? That car is badass! Sounds very nice too I am getting whatever exhaust is on that car. :)

Tommy
 

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585 HP

Just another thought on 585 HP, I built a 454 engine, its base configuration was a factory LS7 crate engine, which easily compares with the ZL1 at 427 ci, same compression more ci. I added a competition Crower roller cam rockers etc kit, larger valves, Dart intake, Holley 1050 cfm dominator, and race tuned headers, along with competition ignition system, and of course port modifications to the heads. This combination resulted in roughly 625HP. I think that the biggest issue missed when comparing engines is area under the curve. In the muscle car days peak HP was sought at the expense of low end torque, ci was raised to solve that problem. The biggest gain today is the way GM raises HP while maintaining low end torque, the result is more area under the curve. If you place a 70 LT1 engine dyno curve over a LS6 curve you will see how peaky the LT1 was. What this means is that if you ran a low ratio high numerical rear end, slicks and severely abused your car it would run decent times. Todays cars run great times with reasonalbe street ratios and street tires because they pull all the way through the RPM range, not just at the high end. Yesterdays engine were way over rated. When I was younger I used to be caught up in drag racing street and otherwise, this was in the 80's, at that time a low 12 second car on street tires was a highly modified big block with sticky cheater street tires. I had a highly tuned 377ci small block in a camaro which was lucky to turn low 13's to high 12's in street config.

All that I can say is that I am blown away at the performance of the Z06 and that I can't wait for the C6.

PS my 2001 Honda S2000 is based upon high HP at the expense of low RPM torque, and it suffers greatly from this. This is why I bought the Z06.
 

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Muscle cars evolved over a long period of time and have taken on folklore status.

The Z06 is a fairly new product that is taking on its own cult status.

It has a web site filled with Z06aholics.

It has the right lineage and birthright status - Chevy small block heritage.

It comes in a few colours with limited production.

Lots of people want one but will never be able to get one for whatever reason.

It is the best throwback to the late sixties, early seventies performance minded enthusiast.

It is a tremendous value.

It has a big grin, fun factor appeal to many of us.

Its :cool:

Give it some time and we'll see if it becomes a " new Muscle car "

BTW, the Viper is in the same league IMHO, its just not a Chev.
 
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