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Discussion Starter #1
When I read about the wheel hop algro(Launch Controal). on the 02's it says it works by cuting fuel(not throtle)and timeing. If you were to mod a 02 with more air intake and use a maft to lean it out would the motor go lean when algrorithm cut in on launch and possibly hurt it? Would the timeing pull back fast enough to save it or is it so far out of the programed parameters that it's toast? What do you think? Ric
 

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This may not help you, but here goes...Never experienced wheel hop with my '02. :-?

Zippy :z: :z:
 

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Powershifter

Sounds like a question for ROGER RAMJET...................now, if he will only come to the party...............:D
 

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PowerShifter said:
When I read about the wheel hop algro(Launch Controal). on the 02's it says it works by cuting fuel(not throtle)and timeing. If you were to mod a 02 with more air intake and use a maft to lean it out would the motor go lean when algrorithm cut in on launch and possibly hurt it? Would the timeing pull back fast enough to save it or is it so far out of the programed parameters that it's toast? What do you think? Ric
I would love to know!

I have experienced severe wheel hop on an admittedly slippery track.... no fun at all! :mad:

Anyone else experiencing this? :-?
 

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I think it's a matter of finding the optimum launch rpms........too low and it bogs....too high and too much wheel spin....obviously.For me,2300rpms on stock tires,acceptable amount
 

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May also want to have rear wheel alignment checked.
 

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is this a problem with 02s

I have experienced wheel hop on take off and 1-2shift and ever so slightly on 2-3shift (very rare).I don't think it is fuel related, but rather a simple alternating of traction then not and the tire transfering the energy back into the suspension. If it was fuel I believe it would have to cycle quickly (which it can) but also with sufficient force to again break the tires loose, of which I think is not the case. The wheel hop is while in Comp Drive mode. I have learned how to prevent the hopping through driving technique(clutch-throttle application) usually resulting in a less agressive approach. Another side bit: this seems to only happen when going straight. If I'm accelerating hard exiting a turn, never a hop. Must have something to do with the rear diff applying torque. The car gets great traction in that situation, providing I'm careful with throttle app.( the car will step out in 2nd or 3rd if not, only a quick slide with no hop).
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I belive the wheel hop agror is realy a very high tech launch control., when it detects an amount of power that is to grate on launch it has the ability to cut fuel(not throtle)so you cant over power the launch and get hop. This is a grate idea, F1 cars have it and it works. The potential problem I was trying to ask was if you added nos on the 02 and on the launch the system feels enough wheel spin to cut fuel will the car go lean and posibly hurt it self? The system can also pull timeing out to protect it but the paramater is setup for the stock car, not nos. Ric
 

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Only experienced wheel hop once on a 1-2 shift, reduced tire pressure to 30 pounds. No hop ever since.:)
 

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Powershifter,

Very interesting question. At first I thought what you might be referring to is actually the abuse management control programing kicking in.

So I've scoured the web looking for similiar problem/discussion. Almost all of the information, informed or otherwise seems to point to the problem with wheel hop as a combination of surface conditions, type of tire. launch technique etc.

You comment about NOS made me wonder again, so I looked for C5s with NOS and traction control, but have not seen any problems relating NOS to wheel hop or lean conditions caused by the fuel being cut off. But most of the posts I read, wrt the cars with NOS also seemd to have had reprogramming done as well.

It does make you wonder though about how exactly are the cars programmed and what are the limits.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Keven, Thanks for looking around. Since this part of the program is new to the 02 manual trans cars not just the Z06's, I guess time will have to pass to find out if it will be a problem. Just a passing thought that made me wonder if leaning with maft or nos would take it out side the safety cushion GM provided. Ric
 

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Very interesting. I guess I haven't seen the symptoms yet, but my car has only 700 miles on it, and I've only done roll-ons to WOT in 1st gear...so wheelhop is pretty much avoided there. In competition mode on the 1-2 shift (granny shift...meaning off-throttle on upshift) at 6300rpm the rear-end kicks out a bit.

From my experience with driving hi-powered cars (none of which had the dampening ability to hook up as well as this one on regular radials) it feels like there's just some wheelspin...no cut-out at all. :-?

Anyway, when I install nitrous on my car it will only be activated after the clean upshift into 2nd and when the car has achieved traction. Mine's going to have a manual switch so that on upshifts I'm off-the-bottle...since I will be off-the-throttle. :) It is going to be absolutely USELESS to have the nitrous flowing in 1st gear and maybe even most of 2nd if you're running an F1 tire.

On drag slicks, the situation could get dicey if what you're saying were to happen and the owner got the stick, then spin, scenario...which can happen with a tight suspension like this that could unload easily.

Powershifter...are you saying this can happen in any gear, at any speed, at any rpm? Even if in Comp. mode? Or, is this somehow only activated on a standing start launch?

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
My thoughts come from the GM engioner saying if the car detecs wheel hop, it wil pull fuel(not thtotle) and timeing. And it will do this even if T?C and AH are turned off, I think a possible sidebenefit of this system is a very nuanced launch traction control on stock or near stock cars for improned 0-60. Just still wondering if a leand out maft would go so lean if this system kicked in as to hurt the engion? Rtc
 

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PowerShifter said:
My thoughts come from the GM engioner saying if the car detecs wheel hop, it wil pull fuel(not thtotle) and timeing. And it will do this even if T?C and AH are turned off, I think a possible sidebenefit of this system is a very nuanced launch traction control on stock or near stock cars for improned 0-60. Just still wondering if a leand out maft would go so lean if this system kicked in as to hurt the engion? Rtc
Ric,

I'm just a hot-rodder, not an engineer. However, unless it cuts fuel for an extended period of time (I think we're talking miliseconds here, correct?) I cannot imagine it being a lean "enough" condition to really hurt the motor. Even if for a milisecond, the A/F ratio in one cylinder went to 15:1...the fuel instantly would come back and restore the proper combustion. On a N/A motor...I don't think it'd be an issue.

On a nitrous or supercharged engine...it definitely could be an issue. First off, traction will be even more limited, so the thing could be kicking on more often and for a longer period of time.

This has me a bit nervous about the nitrous. :( There are guys with '02s running juice, and I haven't heard of any issues yet.

However, just today when I nailed the 1-2 shift hard and lit the tires up hard (poor road) I thought I felt it kick in. Maybe this was the abuse management...I don't know for sure. It was so quick, I cannot be positive. If it was this system kicking in, then I'd say there's no way it'd hurt a N/A motor...but again, on the bottle...????

Going to be a bit ticked off if I can't safely install a small nitrous kit,
 

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I can tell you first hand that when the computer detects excessive wheel hop (in my case on launch, 1-2 and 2-3) it drops the fuel just like when you hit the rev limiter - damn near put me into the steering wheel on launch. Also at the time I was in ACS off (not competitive mode) and the ACS turned back ON each time. This appears to be a feature of the driver abuse feature in the 02.

Next time out on the advise of others I will try and heat the tires up a good bit first. If that fails I am considering 12 way adjustable shocks which should, in theory, help also.

Les
 

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ZO6/Les said:
I can tell you first hand that when the computer detects excessive wheel hop (in my case on launch, 1-2 and 2-3) it drops the fuel just like when you hit the rev limiter - damn near put me into the steering wheel on launch. Also at the time I was in ACS off (not competitive mode) and the ACS turned back ON each time. This appears to be a feature of the driver abuse feature in the 02.

Next time out on the advise of others I will try and heat the tires up a good bit first. If that fails I am considering 12 way adjustable shocks which should, in theory, help also.

Les
Wonder what would happen if you were in Comp. Mode, though.

Seems to me it would do this on the dyno, too...but there's no wheel hop there...just the computer thinking there's excessive wheel "spin". So this is a "wheel HOP" issue and not a wheel SPIN" issue???

I'm not going to try and set the world on fire with the small shot of nitrous I want to run. But I want it to be safe, and I don't want this stupid feature kicking in at the wrong time. I'm sure if I just activated it in 3rd and 4th at the track I'd be fine (after the upshifts are complete)...but I think this car hooks well enough to use it in 2nd gear, too (75-100hp shot).

Any ideas?

I know Optic Z06 has an '02 and runs 100-125hp pills with his NX kit and he races his car at the track on radials. I don't think he's had any issues.
 

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Wheel Hop

I have wheel hop, on asphalt, concrete, wet or dry when I have the traction control is on. Turning it off seems to clear it up. I thinks maybe the control is acting like the anti-lock brakes and pulses the brake/throttle on/off and creates the bumpity bump.
 
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