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The phoenix spindle ducts bolt right up to the back of the hub brace, very easy to install compared to the LGM which requires removal of the hub to install.

In theory the LGM will focus the air flow better, but I'm not sure anyone has ever proven one design is better than the other.

LGM's used to have only a 3 inch pipe attached, while the phoenix was closer to 3.5 inch - making it easier to attach the DRM ducts. However, I think that LGM was going to change this part of the design.

I went with Phoenix for the above and because I could just drive over and pick up a set. Good Luck.
 

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I just installed the Phoenix mounts because I was wary about doing the disassembly required for the LGM mounts without someone "holding my hand". I want to see an LGM set installed and see how much difference there is. My first run with the brake ducts will be the Fest DE...
 

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LGM has instructions by phone. You can call me any time and get all the shortcuts.

We use our ducts on our World Challenge car with great success. The point of the LG ducts is to close off the back of the rotor to actually seal it and force the curved vains in the rotor to act like a squirl cage fan and force the air through the center of the disc. The point of cooling the rotor from the center of the disc is to promote even cooling on both sides of the rotor. And Our Ducts are aluminum to reduce unsprung weight.

By cooling the rotor more evenly you avoid having the disc warp as it heats and cools. Imagine having the outside surface being hotter than the inside pad contact surface.

You can see that the outside would be expanded more and it trys to make a flat rotor into a "bowl" shaped rotor. Even without any ducts the factory veins suck air in at the inside center and force it radially out the disc.

So to just blow air on one disc suface without trying to get the air into the center you will promote uneven cooling of the disc surfaces.

In addition, the backing plate that comes with our ducts keeps the center supplied with forced and concentrated air where it wants to be.

There is no easy answer to each race related question. Be it brakes, headers or engines. Each solution trys to approach a 100%. some just get closer than others.

On a scale of 1 to 10, Formula one gets a 10. Alms gets a 9, World Challenge gets an 8, and our street ducts get a 7. Just blowing air in the general direction of the rotor gets about a 2 or 3. (like the rear ducts on a Z06. It is better than nothing but not by much.)

Thanks
Lou gigliotti LGM

 

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Lou's got his ducts covered above.
For the Phoenix ducts, I printed the instructions off the PFYC site.
After the install I sent an edited instruction back to Brian at PFYC for their consideration. Pretty straightforward install.
HTH
 

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I don't understand why the Phoenix duct would not put as much air through the rotor, but I have only seen pics of them. Is the LG spindle closer to the rotor once it is installed? And if so, how much closer? Also, LG says his are aluminum, what are the Phoenix ducts made of??
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I 'believe' the difference is not volume of air but that the two are aimed slightly different ways, with LGM aiming into the hub center from behind and Phoenix aiming at the rotor toward the back of the caliper. Lou's solution does seem better, it just costs a bit more and isn't a fun install.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

So do the LGM use different diameter of tubing than Phoenix?
 

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Phoenix ducts are made of steel.
Duct sits about 3/8 " from the rotor.
I haven't seen a LGM install; only pictures ... and they were inconclusive.
For the Phoenix ... it aims at the rotor in front of the spindle. Look at where your ABS sensor connector mounts on the front side of the spindle. Look at the arc of the spindle. The Phoenix duct sits against the arc of the spindle, and surrounds the ABS sensor connector. So, air is directed half into the rotor center to get picked up by the vanes and half onto the inner half of the inner side of the rotor.
When I see an LGM install up close and personal and talk to the owner I'll be better able to compare.
I'll see if I can scrape up a picture of my install and post it if it adds anything to this discussion.
My Hose came with the DRM ducts and I managed to get it on the phoenix mounts as well as the DRM outlets. Dunno the diameter of the LGM or if they ship hose with theirs.
HTH
 

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I installed the LGM ducts and it really was not too bad an install. The hose is not mated correctly from the spindle duct to the DRM brake duct though and I am thinking of getting narrower scat tube to go inside the DRM extension.
 

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DennyM said:
Phoenix ducts are made of steel.
Duct sits about 3/8 " from the rotor.
I haven't seen a LGM install; only pictures ... and they were inconclusive.
For the Phoenix ... it aims at the rotor in front of the spindle. Look at where your ABS sensor connector mounts on the front side of the spindle. Look at the arc of the spindle. The Phoenix duct sits against the arc of the spindle, and surrounds the ABS sensor connector. So, air is directed half into the rotor center to get picked up by the vanes and half onto the inner half of the inner side of the rotor.
When I see an LGM install up close and personal and talk to the owner I'll be better able to compare.
I'll see if I can scrape up a picture of my install and post it if it adds anything to this discussion.
My Hose came with the DRM ducts and I managed to get it on the phoenix mounts as well as the DRM outlets. Dunno the diameter of the LGM or if they ship hose with theirs.
HTH


What happens is that with an open hose you lose more than 50% of your air. It is deflected by the spinning hub/rotor and most of the air does not go into the rotor.

BY sealing the back of the rotora and forcing the air to be directed into the center of the rotor, you get about 90% of the air in where it needs to be. without doing this, you might as well just place an in line fan aimed at the rotor and just blow air in that direction.

We use this same brake duct on our race car and I can tell you that we race very hard for 50 minutes and each lap is a qualifying lap. There is no let up and there is no brake problems.

We could not do this if we just blew air in the general direction of the brake. It must be forced into the center to pass through the vains and cool both sides of the rotor from between them which is where the curved vains are.


Thanks
Lou G
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
To Summarize what I'm reading:

LGM Pros:
- Seem to be more efficient (THE BIG ONE)
- I have a feeling Lou would be easier to reach for help than the Phoenix guys

Phoenix Pros:
- Price ($150 vs $180 for LGM)
- Mates up directly with the DRM hoses vs the smaller diameter hose needed for the LGM
- Both have crummy instructions, though the Phoenix does seem to have some instructions and be an easier install


The LG's are aluminum, but it also looks like there's a lot more material on the LGM's. Not sure which one actually weighs less in total in terms of unsprung weight. The fact that LG took the time to consider unsprunp weight tells me they may have put more thought into overall design.

Lou, Backlash mentioned that you may be changing to a 3.5 inch tube to properly fit the DRM ducts. Any word on that?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Well, I went with the LGM's in the end. I just had trouble seeing how the aim of the Phoenix ducts could compare to the more focused LGM spindle duct setup.
 

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I'm sure you'll be pleased once you get them installed.
Please share your install experience and tips ... :ity:
 

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So what do the T1 guys use??
 
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