[FUBU69]

JMHO and having put my money where my mouth is on BOTH '01 & '02 Z06 Vettes the '01 had a little more guts at the 100 mile mark. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif The '02's clutch is firmer /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif and the General continues to improve the overall quality of interior /exterior fit. There are times I have to remind myself that i'm driving the '02 Z and have to modify my acceleration habits. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif I know it's a bit pre-mature but it seems to me that the '01's got the freebie 20HP last year. No freebies in'02, not yet. FUBU69/LES BTW I pulled the air box for a look, although improved, air opening is still not enough. I guess the General feels they can eek a few more ponies next year by re-working the box again. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

_________________

2001 Z06 SPEEDWAY WHITE/MODIFIED RED INTERIOR-Corsa Indy's/Pro Tips, Corsa X Pipe, Vortex/Carbon Fiber Power Duct, Z06 Wet Okles Mod Red Seat Covers, Z06 Extra Wide Rolled Exhaust Plate, Red/Clear Euro Lenses, CM Factory OEM Chrome Wheels, BPP Rear Lowering Kit, FRC/Z06 Partition ,Design Specialties Chrome & Decals, STILL EVOLVING! On Order, '02 EB Z06 TPW 7/30 Order # DKMKC7 KEEPING BOTH, I HOPE!

 

[Vetteless]

Man what a great looking garage you must have....Is the speedway white getting a little jealous??? I hope your distributing the love between both of them.

 

[fcalmes]

'01s are no slouches!! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

 

[2001Z06]

Many "experts" felt the 385hp rating for the '01 was a bit on the conservative side. Les, with the cold air system on your '01, you probably made up any difference anyway. Either way, both the '01 & '02 should make the smile go from ear to ear.

Les and Frank, I look forward to meeting you both at Eckler's in October. It should be a great time in the Z06 corral. Let's hope for some of that great Florida weather in October. Enjoy the ride, I am!!!

Don

 

[BLEUBYU]

Well, I guess here is where I get to do something I do so well, /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif , profess ignorance. It is my understanding that power differences between production engines such as the LS-6, should be minimal, perhaps 1, 2%. Unlike the the LT5 motor which seemed to have somewhat noticeable variances (I had a ZR-1), the tolerances of C5 motors is pretty tight.

If this is true, then it would seem that the stock '02 version of the LS-6, with higher lift cam, more open air box, screens removed from MAF, removed pup cats, would be consistently, noticeably stronger.

This is where the logic takes me. Thoughts?

Inquiring minds want to know! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

 

[1fastdog]

On 2001-08-14 13:54, BLEUBYU spewed forth this drivel:
Well, I guess here is where I get to do something I do so well, /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif , profess ignorance. It is my understanding that power differences between production engines such as the LS-6, should be minimal, perhaps 1, 2%. Unlike the the LT5 motor which seemed to have somewhat noticeable variances (I had a ZR-1), the tolerances of C5 motors is pretty tight.

If this is true, then it would seem that the stock '02 version of the LS-6, with higher lift cam, more open air box, screens removed from MAF, removed pup cats, would be consistently, noticeably stronger.

This is where the logic takes me. Thoughts?

Inquiring minds want to know! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

The difference between the '01 and '02 LS6's will reveal itself above 4000 RPM. The differences in lift from .525 & .525 to .551 & .547 along with the reduced backpressure are the kinds of tech that shine in higher RPMs. The ramp speed < velocity of the valve > is up too. Lighter valvetrain components coupled with increased open valve seat spring pressures helps to control the valves and make flow more consistent.

The power potential differences are quantifiable. It isn't as though it's merely a change in written specs. What's been done translated to more juice at higher rpm ranges.

No doubt folks have gotten stronger motors when placing one against the other. What is very tough to compare is cars tested on different dynos with different operators on different days. That's where the math can get fuzzy.

ALL things being EQUAL, you are looking at 17 HP net difference. Can you "feel" 17 HP? Yes, but it isn't night and day. It can be a couple of tenths in the 1/4 and a couple of MPH as well..ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL.

In this size engine with this kind of power rating a 2% power variable would be in the 7-8HP range... roughly half the rating difference, IOW about equal with the lesser rated motor having +7HP and the stronger being -8hp... in this instance a 2 RWHP difference. Same idea could net a weak 385HP rated motor 32RWHP less than a 2% strong 405HP rated motor. Anyone can feel 32 HP at the rear.

_________________
1fastdog
2k FRC

 

[FUBU69]

Thanks 1fastdog, i'm looking foward to meeting you in person at the Eckler's Reunion Event. I thought those new '02 ponies may be hiding above 4000RPM. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif Lots more cracking and popping during deceleration over the '01 stock exhaust. Brakes react a bit better as well. I forgot to mention that the General lowered the tension spring in the center console box. The lid opens/closes much smoother. It is refreshing to see that they are paying attention to minor details FUBU69/LES

_________________

2001 Z06 SPEEDWAY WHITE/MODIFIED RED INTERIOR-Corsa Indy's/Pro Tips, Corsa X Pipe, Vortex/Carbon Fiber Power Duct, Z06 Wet Okles Mod Red Seat Covers, Z06 Extra Wide Rolled Exhaust Plate, Red/Clear Euro Lenses, CM Factory OEM Chrome Wheels, BPP Rear Lowering Kit, FRC/Z06 Partition ,Design Specialties Chrome & Decals, STILL EVOLVING! On Order, '02 EB Z06 TPW 7/30 Order # DKMKC7 KEEPING BOTH, I HOPE!

 

[BLEUBYU]

Thanks 1fastdog - what you said makes a lot of sense and is a very detailed explanation of this issue. It certainly fits in with my earlier train of thought!

Putting on my "logical Mr. Spock ears" again, it would seem to me that even the improved stock airbox falls noticeably short of what can be obtained with a Vortex, or other cold air rammer product. Also, it would seem that the higher lift cam and reduced backpressure exhaust would definitely benefit from the aforementioned mod as well as long tube headers ( I am currently looking at DRM). Together with a lowered T-Stat and fan kit, it would seem possible to gain at least 20 or so rear wheel h/p and 10-15 rear wheel torque.

Any opinions??

Thanks...

/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif

 

[1fastdog]

On 2001-08-14 16:11, FUBU69 spewed forth this drivel:
Thanks 1fastdog, i'm looking foward to meeting you in person at the Eckler's Reunion Event. FUBU69/LES

Likewise! I'm looking forward to it.

 

[1fastdog]

On 2001-08-14 16:32, BLEUBYU spewed forth this drivel:
Thanks 1fastdog - what you said makes a lot of sense and is a very detailed explanation of this issue. It certainly fits in with my earlier train of thought!

Putting on my "logical Mr. Spock ears" again, it would seem to me that even the improved stock airbox falls noticeably short of what can be obtained with a Vortex, or other cold air rammer product. Also, it would seem that the higher lift cam and reduced backpressure exhaust would definitely benefit from the aforementioned mod as well as long tube headers ( I am currently looking at DRM). Together with a lowered T-Stat and fan kit, it would seem possible to gain at least 20 or so rear wheel h/p and 10-15 rear wheel torque.

Any opinions??

Thanks...

/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif

Clearly, what I'm saying is opinion.

Less restriction is beneficial from an intake standpoint. As for any "rammer" effect? I'd let someone else experiment. Turbulence or lean condition can follow a "cold air" intake mod for some folks. This may be even more a problem with the lack of a laminar screen in the MAF sensor housing, atleast where turbulence is concerned.

A less restrictive filter element should be good for a small gain. Beyond that the votes are not in yet. Under 10 is my guess.

Headers are usually a good bet. The LS6 manifolds are pretty good. Unfortunately no one I know of offers a header that will hold up to being heat wrapped...heat wrapping headers is the ticket to keep the heat in the pipe and out of the engine bay... headers will work for a gain, I think a matched port header hasn't been offered yet..that would be nice. Port matching and tuning the pipes for the rev and flow range are the ticket. Stock steel manifolds do hold the heat in better than the pipe used for aftermarket headers. Titanium would be yoohoo cool... sign me up!

The LS motors don't seem quite as fussy about temperature as, let's say, the LT1 or LT4 are. Motors tend to run at the temperature they "want to" unless you are stop and go or track racing without an oil cooler. Just don't opt for too low a stat and match the fans accordingly. This kind of mod is more a power maintainer rather than a gainer at best. Maybe with higher levels due to headers the stat is the way to go.

As for cumulative gains from a set of mods? Get a good baseline after a fair number of miles. Then add mods with a total package in mind. LS motors start to get "right" between 3000 and 5000 miles.

I'd have fun with it stock for a while, get it well broken in. Then if you get the itch add what will work for your package approach.

_________________
1fastdog
2k FRC

 

[Manatee]

Les, did you dyno both before any mods? Based on the changes GM made for '02, I thought the hp/tq gains would only be noticable at the upper rpm range

You and Frank having a fair of Z06's turn me envious green /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Vince

 

[FUBU69]

Vince, Don527 and I are going to try to dyno his bone stock '01 and my '02 shortly. I am very interested to see the results. As I stated before I also believe the '02 ponies are hiding above 4000RPM. Les /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif btw The '01 Zowners got some extra freebie ponies imho. My guess is 400hp stock.

_________________

2001 Z06 SPEEDWAY WHITE/MODIFIED RED INTERIOR-Corsa Indy's/Pro Tips, Corsa X Pipe, Vortex/Carbon Fiber Power Duct, Z06 Wet Okles Mod Red Seat Covers, Z06 Extra Wide Rolled Exhaust Plate, Red/Clear Euro Lenses, CM Factory OEM Chrome Wheels, BPP Rear Lowering Kit, FRC/Z06 Partition ,Design Specialties Chrome & Decals, STILL EVOLVING! On Order, '02 EB Z06 TPW 7/30 Order # DKMKC7 KEEPING BOTH, I HOPE!

 

[BLEUBYU]

1fastdog, thanks again for your response and opinion. It is my understanding that when GM removed the MAF screens, a little programing was changed to handle the airflow change. I know I heard this somewhere, but do not know if this is true.

As for the headers, most if not all are coated inside and out for heat control. I had a set of coated headers on my ZR-1 (jet hot) and it worked as well as wrapping used to - so I think this may not be an issue.

I talked to some folks, including folks at DRM about why there is no header designed for the Z06 "D" ports. The responses I have received are: (1) it is unlikely a spcific header will be designed for the Z06 - it is not cost effective and (2) even if it were cost effective from a manufacturing standpoint, their opinon is that very little power is to be gained by this. personally, I don't know enough to assess the truth of this.

As for the TSTAT, I was thinking about 178, in conjunction with a fan kit and some Redline in the radiator.

Thanks again for the responses - this forum is such an excellent source of information and ideas!
/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

 

[don527]

Les,

Definitely lemme when you wanna do it. I'm all up for the idea and good timing since I just got the engine, tranny and gear oil changed Saturday. Yes, there will always be arguments of variations from dyno to dyno but the only variable that will be different is that mine is an '01 and Les' is an '02. Should make interesting converstaion.

Don
QSZ06

On 2001-08-14 19:49, FUBU69 spewed forth this drivel:
Vince, Don527 and I are going to try to dyno his bone stock '01 and my '02 shortly. I am very interested to see the results. As I stated before I also believe the '02 ponies are hiding above 4000RPM. Les /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif btw The '01 Zowners got some extra freebie ponies imho. My guess is 400hp stock.

 

[don527]

My guess...

Since my '01 dynoed at Breathless at 332 rwhp (approx. 390hp calculated at the crank). I'm guessing 349 rwhp on the dyno or approx 410 at the crank for Les' car.

Gentleman place your bets!

Don
QSZ06

On 2001-08-14 19:49, FUBU69 spewed forth this drivel:
My guess is 400hp stock.

 

[fcalmes]

Les is a DYNO KING!! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif I guess 351.3 RWHP.

 

[raj]

348 hp! Remember, the winning guess is the one that's closest without going over!

 

[don527]

Winner gets a free Z06VETTE.com T-shirt right? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Don
QSZ06

On 2001-08-14 23:42, raj spewed forth this drivel:
348 hp! Remember, the winning guess is the one that's closest <B>without going over!

</B>

 

[Zoomin]

Frisky and I are dynoing his 02, my 01 Thursday a.m. We both will have around the same mileage, no mods so we hope to have most of the variables eliminated. It will be interesting to compare our results with yours.

 

[AgentZ06]

Can't wait for the results fellas! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif