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Discussion Starter #1

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jersey jay said:
For all you guys that don't visit the other place there's alot happening with Pro Charger with a coulpe of vendors who support this site.

Here's a link for all you to see what's going on.

Feel free to comment as I don't like strong arm tactics myself.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1151726&forum_id=86
Jay,

Thanks for doing this, as I was just about to put a thread up myself.

Many of you here at ZO6vette.com have used either the services of ECS or A&A for Procharger installs, and know that they have taken what many considered to be a mediocre product (the ATI Procharger system) with what can be considered, at best, tacit customer service (on ATI's part), and thru their own time and efforts, turned it into a very reliable S/C system producing some awesome results on our cars. In addition, they (Andy and ECS) have taken the brunt of customer service related calls on this system, whether or not they sold the S/C in the first place. That's just the way these two shops operate. :thumb:

Reading how they now have been treated can only bring some anger to you, as this is bad business, and it will come back to haunt them (ATI). :yeadog:

Don
 

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I won't get into the politics of this thread other than to say not everything you see on the surface of an issue is as simple as it appears.

My only comment is that I am 1,0000,000% sure that ATI did not copy, in any way shape or form, the ECS or A & A brackets or intercoolers for their new kit. I watched and observed first hand the development process over the last 18 months and my Z took part (as a mule) for many testing sessions.

Mike
 

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MikesZ06 said:
My only comment is that I am 1,0000,000% sure that ATI did not copy, in any way shape or form, the ECS or A & A brackets or intercoolers for their new kit.
Damn..only 10,000,000%?....not good enough.. :lol:

Mike,

I figured you'd chime in, as I know you've had a long relationship with ATI. I'm not an FI guy, so I can't and won't comment on the issue of "new" designs. My comments were more directed at the "operational" level decisions that were made. As a small business owner, I am certain you have had similar situations occur...notice I said similar, not exactly the same. I'm not sure how you might have handled them, but I'm certain you weren't happy that they occured.

None the less, the management at ATI has made a decision, and at least two tuners, who were some of their biggest clients for C5 based applications (I am privey to what ECS spent with ATI last year, at let's just say it wasn't "chump change") have made theirs. Let the market decide from there. :cheers:

Don
 

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All specifics of the new kit aside, I think it was a judgement made in poor taste on ATI's part.
 

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Don Benson said:
Damn..only 10,000,000%?....not good enough.. :lol:

Mike,

I figured you'd chime in, as I know you've had a long relationship with ATI. I'm not an FI guy, so I can't and won't comment on the issue of "new" designs. My comments were more directed at the "operational" level decisions that were made. As a small business owner, I am certain you have had similar situations occur...notice I said similar, not exactly the same. I'm not sure how you might have handled them, but I'm certain you weren't happy that they occured.

None the less, the management at ATI has made a decision, and at least two tuners, who were some of their biggest clients for C5 based applications (I am privey to what ECS spent with ATI last year, at let's just say it wasn't "chump change") have made theirs. Let the market decide from there. :cheers:

Don
Don, I understand totally what you're saying and I'm not about to get involved in defending ATI in their business decisions. They are big boys and they can take care of themselves.
I just needed to point out one discrepency that I saw in the CF thread regarding copying someone elses design. It just didn't happen!

(btw, you know as well as I do that 'large expenditures' don't necessarily equate to large profits to the company being bought from. Something to keep in mind...)

Mike

:cheers: :cheers:
 

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I hope this situation gets resolved and all parties are happy. This only hurts the consumer IMO.
 

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Procharger news

I have posted comments in the past about the ATI 2004 ZO6 Procharger kit I installed on my Vette (9/2004). I will say I did not do enough research before buying the ATI twin I/C kit (would not repeat that mistake). It has cost a significant amount of money above the standard kit cost to get my system operating good. Their tuner at the time 9/2004 (Diablo motor sports) to say the least SUCKED. The lowest A/F ratio achieved with the standard kit was 12.9 to 1 at redline. I felt this would increase the possibility of damaging my new Z's engine. I called Andy's A&A and got the boost a pump suggestion from Andy (very nice and helpful guy). I installed it and some 48lbs injector to finally get it to 11.5 to 1 at redline. Along with building a new air cleaner assembly I have had 13,000 miles of great performance. Only uses about 1/4 quart of oil in 3,000 miles of hard driving. I think ATI is going to put their nuts in somebody else’s hands buy doing what they are doing with Andy and ECS. Some companies won't leave well enough alone. ATI will never be my source for increased power next time I'm in the market (which will be soon for the wife’s 2005 GTO). Wish all the luck to Andy and ECS in the future.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Hey I have no clue why my thread was moved out of the power adders forum as that's where it belonged, this is not about a new product!!!!!!!!

This is about what ATI has done to two premier shops that improved their poor design and lack of if any customer support!

I have no clue who moved my thread here into the land of the lost but it just shows me that someone has chosen sides here in the higher up.

Who ever did move it don't you understand that ECS and A&A are both supporting vendors on this site!!!!!!! I have posted what has happened on this site to my thread on the other side.

I have also contacted Chris, Doug and Andy to let them know about this thread being shoved under the carpet and it would not take me back any if they are no longer sponsors on this site after they read this thread.

It's not fair that the little guys have to crumble at the feet of the big guys and by moving this thread it just shows what your true colors are.

As a former shop owner this is totally :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs:

If you want to ban me for sharing the truth so be it!

I'm otta here. :cen: :bs: :cen: :bs: :cen:
 

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Dude you have serious issues. Relax. It is in the right section!!! You posted it in the wrong one.

It is not a technical FI thread
It is a product related thread

Power Adders>Discuss forced induction, nitrous, and other power adders

New Products>Discuss any new products related to the Z06 or Corvette C5 here. New intakes, t-shirts, anything.

New Products gets ALOT of traffic too!
 

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jersey jay said:
Hey I have no clue why my thread was moved out of the power adders forum as that's where it belonged, this is not about a new product!!!!!!!!

This is about what ATI has done to two premier shops that improved their poor design and lack of if any customer support!

I have no clue who moved my thread here into the land of the lost but it just shows me that someone has chosen sides here in the higher up.

Who ever did move it don't you understand that ECS and A&A are both supporting vendors on this site!!!!!!! I have posted what has happened on this site to my thread on the other side.

I have also contacted Chris, Doug and Andy to let them know about this thread being shoved under the carpet and it would not take me back any if they are no longer sponsors on this site after they read this thread.

It's not fair that the little guys have to crumble at the feet of the big guys and by moving this thread it just shows what your true colors are.

As a former shop owner this is totally :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs:

If you want to ban me for sharing the truth so be it!

I'm otta here. :cen: :bs: :cen: :bs: :cen:
Hey smartass, I didn't move the thread, but I'm sure whichever moderator moved it didn't do it for sinister purposes (or taking sides). They moved it because they felt that this section is where it belonged. I don't even know which section it started out in, but this is where it's at now.

Since you are basically accusing me of trying to bury this thread, I will tell you that NO ONE is taking sides on this issue...especially not me! If you are able to read English, you might reread my post again. I clarified an issue of which I have first hand knowledge, I did not 'take a side' regarding ATI's actions. The only controversy here is the one you are trying to create and talking out of your ass just ain't gonna cut it.

You are free to call anybody you choose and tell them whatever you want but if you get critical and start spouting Bullshit that you know nothing about regarding the moderators here...you are gone! :flaming:

Mike
 

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I moved the thread for the obvious reasons stated by benenati379.

It was not Mike.

Out of respect for Andy and Chris the post is now back in Power Adders.
Once again there was no agenda here other than my usual placement of post of where I think they should be.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I understand and thank you for the respect that you have for Chris, Doug and Andy!
 

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jersey jay said:
I understand and thank you for the respect that you have for Chris, Doug and Andy!
Sorry I lost my cool with you also.
All is good?
 

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I just spoke with Tom and it will be moved back. I think it's appropriate that the thread be read by those involved with Forced Induction. It's important information, in my opinion. It's not just bashing a vendor. What they have done is unconscionable.
I have 18 units on backorder. Some have been on order since April. Purchase orders were accepted, tentative shipping dates were given and pushed back several times. Then all of a sudden they have a "new" kit and all by backorders are now being held "hostage". They won't release them until I commit to buying and advertising their full kits.
Did they copy my setup? I don't know and don't care. ( It sure looks familiar, though) I just feel that this contrived shortage and then the extortion to release my prevoius backorders is pure BS
 

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ATI's position seems a little short sighted. You would think that selling blowers is a good thing for them. Risking losing head unit sales, to large customers in order to sell complete kits seems dumb. Shops like A&A or ECS will just find another avenue for centrifugal blower packages. I think that in the long run ATI's business will suffer not A&A's or ECS's.
 

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FRC Tom said:
I moved the thread for the obvious reasons stated by benenati379.

It was not Mike.

Out of respect for Andy and Chris the post is now back in Power Adders.
Once again there was no agenda here other than my usual placement of post of where I think they should be.

:thumb:
 

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Discussion Starter #19
FRC Tom said:
Sorry I lost my cool with you also.
All is good?
No problem Tom and I'm glad Andy posted in the thread just to shed a little light on the subject as well. i did not want to spill any of the beans and I'll leave that to those who are directly affected by this.

Chris @ ECS is out today and Doug is running from pillar to post. I'm sure at one point that they'll also shed some light with all of you on what's going on.
 

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.....Did they copy my setup? I don't know and don't care. ( It sure looks familiar, though)......
Andy, as for the rest of this issue, I will not address it in any way. It is neither my concern nor my any of my business.
As stated previously though, I can guarantee that their new kit was not in any way a copy, offshoot or anything else related to yours and/or ECS's kit. That is a promise!

I wish nothing for you and ECS except good fortunes and a bright future.

Mike
 
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