Steel Brake Lines?
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The reality is you will notice no difference if you didn't have some pedal softness to begin with.
Great safety piece. But unless you have race tires and good pads it might not be worth the investment.
I had them on all my previous race cars but since I only do track events with this one and run stock tires (and Panther plus pads) I haven't had any issues.
Just fyi.
Great safety piece. But unless you have race tires and good pads it might not be worth the investment.
I had them on all my previous race cars but since I only do track events with this one and run stock tires (and Panther plus pads) I haven't had any issues.
Just fyi.
SS Brake Lines secret
I would never do this....but if you really think that Braided Stainless Steel lines are necessary then there is a way. I didn't tell you this.
Use some flat black shrink wrap before you install them. I'm sure that it will make the the SS lines look stock.
I would never do this....but if you really think that Braided Stainless Steel lines are necessary then there is a way. I didn't tell you this.
Use some flat black shrink wrap before you install them. I'm sure that it will make the the SS lines look stock.
Goodridge SS Lines....
are very high quality. Are made specifically for racing applications and are used by most F1 teams, Factory sports car teams, touring car and rally car teams in Europe.
The advantages of SS Lines are:
1. Safety - they are armored against exterior damage and internal pressure overload which could cause failure.
2. Won't kink under heavy steering and breaking and suspehsion changes which could cause uneven braking resulting in a spin.
3. Consistent braking pressure. The same pressure each time produces the same result. The amount of expansion changes with temperature and pressure. The external temperatures vary from exahust heat radiation, underhood temps and even pavement heat radiation. The greatest change in heat is internal with fluid temps reaching 600 degrees. This plays havoc in rubber lines. There is a great change in resistance to expansion as the system heats up, the resistance goes down dramatically with rubber lines and the brakes feel mushy. Is it the pads or the lines?. You never really know how much pressure to apply until you do. You must modulate the brakes not only to what the car is doing but to what the brakes are doing as well.
4. SS Lines give you pricise control every time. You can then modulate the brakes better and hence drive the car better and be faster.
5. In ABS systems which the Z06 has you have less "chatter" as the ABS system becomes active. Also on the Z06 the Active handling seems to work better and not as often, as hard and extreme. Believe me I have pushed the car to the limit and spun it a couple of times.
6. You need less input and pedal pressure. This gives you better control. Its better to "surgically" use the brakes rather than being a Gorilla with them. This also means less fatigue.
Why are the Goodridge's better.
1. Quality construction, ie. Race quality.
2. Each and every line is tested at the factory to 3,000 psi.
3. The Braid is a tighter weave than Earl's, Aeroquip or Russels.
4. The kit comes with all hardware, attatchments and line brackets.
5. Each kit is vehicle specific.
6. They are specifically made brake lines not just braided tubing
7. Come internal teflon coated
8. Can be ordered with external coatings and coverings and colors
9. They make a Kevlar Line if you want to go that route.
Some hints if you go that way.
In the Z06 if you go with the SS Lines ($80-100) you should also get quality pads ($300-$400) and use racing fluid. I use AP600. Its boiling point is 600 dry and is somewhat less expensive than Motul or the Castrol Racing fluid. Although Castrol is the best and should be used I think in full race situations I have been told that it is very corrosive to the Corvette System and you my find yourself bying a new master cylinder after a year. I have also been told that you should drain the fluid before winter storage and replace with GM DOT fluid for storage.
When replacing fluid you can't just bleed the system and refill. You must bleed the ABS as well. This requires a Tech II system to do it. Your local Chevy garage has one as do some others around town probably. I had Mallett do mine. For auto cross I use his "Silver" Autocross Carbon Kevlar Pads in the rear and his "Gold" Race Carbon Kevlar Pads in the front. This gives me maximum stopping power for autocross but keeps the rear where it belongs, in the rear.
The Z06 braking system is fantastic but you can improve on it for competition and you should. For less than $600 for pads, fluid, lines and labor you can noticaly improve the system. Now if I could only use those SS lines and cross drilled and slotted rotors I'd be happy.
If you have to use the stock rotors have them cryo treated. This will extend their life, reducing warping and heat cracking.
One further secret. The caliper pistons in the Z06 are Aluminum, This saves weight but also transfers heat to the brake fluid. Remember heat is the enemy here. Doug Rippie has a set of Stainless steel replacement pistons, these work well insulating the caliper from the heat but increases weight. There is another solution. You can have Titanium pistons made for around $500, This solves both problems, weight and insulation from heat. How fast do you want to go and how much money do you have?
If you ever wondered how much heat is built up in a brake system here's an example. I decided I didn't like the color of the stock rotor "hats". I found some high temperature (1,200 degree) red paint to match the calipers. I removed the rotors, masked the braking surface and painted them inside and out. I did this not only for looks but to insulate the wheel bearings from heat shock.
They looked great and everything was fine for 2 weeks. I went to a local autocross, a small, tight, low speed, first gear course. After 3 runs the red 1.200 degree paint on the front rotors had vanished. Vaporized by the heat in 3, 40 second runs. I borrowed an infrared heat gun analyser and the rotors were at 1,700 degrees 5 minutes after the last run!!!!
Just check out those front rotors on the GP cars at night during the 24 hours of Daytona. Red hot and glowing molten orange!!
are very high quality. Are made specifically for racing applications and are used by most F1 teams, Factory sports car teams, touring car and rally car teams in Europe.
The advantages of SS Lines are:
1. Safety - they are armored against exterior damage and internal pressure overload which could cause failure.
2. Won't kink under heavy steering and breaking and suspehsion changes which could cause uneven braking resulting in a spin.
3. Consistent braking pressure. The same pressure each time produces the same result. The amount of expansion changes with temperature and pressure. The external temperatures vary from exahust heat radiation, underhood temps and even pavement heat radiation. The greatest change in heat is internal with fluid temps reaching 600 degrees. This plays havoc in rubber lines. There is a great change in resistance to expansion as the system heats up, the resistance goes down dramatically with rubber lines and the brakes feel mushy. Is it the pads or the lines?. You never really know how much pressure to apply until you do. You must modulate the brakes not only to what the car is doing but to what the brakes are doing as well.
4. SS Lines give you pricise control every time. You can then modulate the brakes better and hence drive the car better and be faster.
5. In ABS systems which the Z06 has you have less "chatter" as the ABS system becomes active. Also on the Z06 the Active handling seems to work better and not as often, as hard and extreme. Believe me I have pushed the car to the limit and spun it a couple of times.
6. You need less input and pedal pressure. This gives you better control. Its better to "surgically" use the brakes rather than being a Gorilla with them. This also means less fatigue.
Why are the Goodridge's better.
1. Quality construction, ie. Race quality.
2. Each and every line is tested at the factory to 3,000 psi.
3. The Braid is a tighter weave than Earl's, Aeroquip or Russels.
4. The kit comes with all hardware, attatchments and line brackets.
5. Each kit is vehicle specific.
6. They are specifically made brake lines not just braided tubing
7. Come internal teflon coated
8. Can be ordered with external coatings and coverings and colors
9. They make a Kevlar Line if you want to go that route.
Some hints if you go that way.
In the Z06 if you go with the SS Lines ($80-100) you should also get quality pads ($300-$400) and use racing fluid. I use AP600. Its boiling point is 600 dry and is somewhat less expensive than Motul or the Castrol Racing fluid. Although Castrol is the best and should be used I think in full race situations I have been told that it is very corrosive to the Corvette System and you my find yourself bying a new master cylinder after a year. I have also been told that you should drain the fluid before winter storage and replace with GM DOT fluid for storage.
When replacing fluid you can't just bleed the system and refill. You must bleed the ABS as well. This requires a Tech II system to do it. Your local Chevy garage has one as do some others around town probably. I had Mallett do mine. For auto cross I use his "Silver" Autocross Carbon Kevlar Pads in the rear and his "Gold" Race Carbon Kevlar Pads in the front. This gives me maximum stopping power for autocross but keeps the rear where it belongs, in the rear.
The Z06 braking system is fantastic but you can improve on it for competition and you should. For less than $600 for pads, fluid, lines and labor you can noticaly improve the system. Now if I could only use those SS lines and cross drilled and slotted rotors I'd be happy.
If you have to use the stock rotors have them cryo treated. This will extend their life, reducing warping and heat cracking.
One further secret. The caliper pistons in the Z06 are Aluminum, This saves weight but also transfers heat to the brake fluid. Remember heat is the enemy here. Doug Rippie has a set of Stainless steel replacement pistons, these work well insulating the caliper from the heat but increases weight. There is another solution. You can have Titanium pistons made for around $500, This solves both problems, weight and insulation from heat. How fast do you want to go and how much money do you have?
If you ever wondered how much heat is built up in a brake system here's an example. I decided I didn't like the color of the stock rotor "hats". I found some high temperature (1,200 degree) red paint to match the calipers. I removed the rotors, masked the braking surface and painted them inside and out. I did this not only for looks but to insulate the wheel bearings from heat shock.
They looked great and everything was fine for 2 weeks. I went to a local autocross, a small, tight, low speed, first gear course. After 3 runs the red 1.200 degree paint on the front rotors had vanished. Vaporized by the heat in 3, 40 second runs. I borrowed an infrared heat gun analyser and the rotors were at 1,700 degrees 5 minutes after the last run!!!!
Just check out those front rotors on the GP cars at night during the 24 hours of Daytona. Red hot and glowing molten orange!!
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620 Posts
DJ,
Thanks for the good info on SS lines.
I have bled lots of corvette brakes but never the ABS.
Why do you recommend this?
Also I have driven on track with SS lines and stock lines.
No difference or very little in pedal feel to me.
I think the stock lines are very good. For street use, especially.
You did not mention that SS lines can be damaged by rocks and other debris.
Thanks for the good info on SS lines.
I have bled lots of corvette brakes but never the ABS.
Why do you recommend this?
Also I have driven on track with SS lines and stock lines.
No difference or very little in pedal feel to me.
I think the stock lines are very good. For street use, especially.
You did not mention that SS lines can be damaged by rocks and other debris.
ABS Bleed
My understanding (and I'm not a mechanic, just a hot shoe; C4C5 might better explain it) is that when the ABS is not active their is an accuation valve or solinoid which is closed. Therefore when the whole system is bled to exchange DOT fluid for racing fluid only the brake system will bleed out but not the ABS. This leaves the regular DOT fluid in the ABS system, thus mixing the 2 the next time the ABS is activated. This is a big no no as it will degrade your performance and degrade the fluids, some are just not compatable with each other.
So if you change to racing fluid in the brake system you have to activate the ABS and bleed it seperately. This can be done only 3 ways under hard braking, by active handling (I think the 2 systems communicate with each other) or in the shop with a Tech II. Its desirable to do it with the Tech II as bleeding the brakes under hard braking can get messy and expensive!!!! (facicious, I know).
One further note, if you change to racing fluid, tell the tehnician to leave the brake reservoir alone on subsequent oil changes. They just love to top it off and this will contaminate the racing fluid with DOT crap (same as not bleeding the ABS). Also I lent my catch container to a fellow racer to go to a national race. I raced at a local autocross and needed an oil change and to bleed the brakes after the local event. So I went to the local Chevy Dealer the next day. I didn't want brake fluid all over my drive way so I told them to bleed the brakes and brought along a quart of AP600. After the bleed I caught the technician attempting to drain the contents of the catch bottle back into the fluid reservoir!!! "Don't even think about it", I yelled!!!! He said he was just trying to save me a few bucks. I explained that his catch bottle was a convience and not a recycle container, the used fluid is "throw away" and to always put in new fluid during a bleed. You gotta watch these guys like a hawk, they are well meaning , but human.
The stock lines are OK for street driving and in fact tend to hold up under autocross conditions in Super Stock where you must use them. The SS lines are better as I previously explained. The SS lines can be damaged by rocks and debri, cones, etc. However I am sure the rubber stock lines would fail much sooner and can wear out just from abrasion and can fail under hard breaking from internal pressure just when you need them the most. This is why gas lines are braided SS in race cars and in fact our Z06, because with metal parts flying around the results can be catastrophic. I have never had a braided line fail on me.
My understanding (and I'm not a mechanic, just a hot shoe; C4C5 might better explain it) is that when the ABS is not active their is an accuation valve or solinoid which is closed. Therefore when the whole system is bled to exchange DOT fluid for racing fluid only the brake system will bleed out but not the ABS. This leaves the regular DOT fluid in the ABS system, thus mixing the 2 the next time the ABS is activated. This is a big no no as it will degrade your performance and degrade the fluids, some are just not compatable with each other.
So if you change to racing fluid in the brake system you have to activate the ABS and bleed it seperately. This can be done only 3 ways under hard braking, by active handling (I think the 2 systems communicate with each other) or in the shop with a Tech II. Its desirable to do it with the Tech II as bleeding the brakes under hard braking can get messy and expensive!!!! (facicious, I know).
One further note, if you change to racing fluid, tell the tehnician to leave the brake reservoir alone on subsequent oil changes. They just love to top it off and this will contaminate the racing fluid with DOT crap (same as not bleeding the ABS). Also I lent my catch container to a fellow racer to go to a national race. I raced at a local autocross and needed an oil change and to bleed the brakes after the local event. So I went to the local Chevy Dealer the next day. I didn't want brake fluid all over my drive way so I told them to bleed the brakes and brought along a quart of AP600. After the bleed I caught the technician attempting to drain the contents of the catch bottle back into the fluid reservoir!!! "Don't even think about it", I yelled!!!! He said he was just trying to save me a few bucks. I explained that his catch bottle was a convience and not a recycle container, the used fluid is "throw away" and to always put in new fluid during a bleed. You gotta watch these guys like a hawk, they are well meaning , but human.
The stock lines are OK for street driving and in fact tend to hold up under autocross conditions in Super Stock where you must use them. The SS lines are better as I previously explained. The SS lines can be damaged by rocks and debri, cones, etc. However I am sure the rubber stock lines would fail much sooner and can wear out just from abrasion and can fail under hard breaking from internal pressure just when you need them the most. This is why gas lines are braided SS in race cars and in fact our Z06, because with metal parts flying around the results can be catastrophic. I have never had a braided line fail on me.
SS Line installation tip
Before final installation of any line and after all connectors have been attatched always blow the line out with compressed air. Any line rubber or SS.
This removes any manufacturing debri and the metal slivers produced when screwing the connectors on to the lines. It also tests the assembly for patentcy. I have had 2 instances where a connector was partialy occluded and a rubber hose had a small animal take up residence in it!! Always blow out the final hose assembly.
Before final installation of any line and after all connectors have been attatched always blow the line out with compressed air. Any line rubber or SS.
This removes any manufacturing debri and the metal slivers produced when screwing the connectors on to the lines. It also tests the assembly for patentcy. I have had 2 instances where a connector was partialy occluded and a rubber hose had a small animal take up residence in it!! Always blow out the final hose assembly.
Bleed ABS ?
There must be a way to activate the ABS solenoid valve without a Tech II. There must be a convenient spot in the wiring to this solenoid where a connector is located. This would create a spot where you could disconnect the car wiring and make/attach a cable which would energize the solenoid temporarily for bleeding purposes.
Has anyone looked at the schematic to see where this solenoid is and how to manually energize it for this purpose ???
Any feedback appreciated !!!:cheers:
There must be a way to activate the ABS solenoid valve without a Tech II. There must be a convenient spot in the wiring to this solenoid where a connector is located. This would create a spot where you could disconnect the car wiring and make/attach a cable which would energize the solenoid temporarily for bleeding purposes.
Has anyone looked at the schematic to see where this solenoid is and how to manually energize it for this purpose ???
Any feedback appreciated !!!:cheers:
I just installed C6 Z06 brakes and used the goodridge lines sent with the kit. As far as the lines go is there a difference with the ends being round vs. square? I was just worried as to if they could move over time, I have the round ends.
For bleeding my wife and I used this procedure-
1.Bleed with key off.
2.Re-bleed with key in the on position.
3.Bleed again wit the key off.
I took the car out for so 60-10 stops to bed in the brakes and they are working absolutly fine.
For the cost compared to many other aftermarket systems I am happy with them. Only thing that kind of sucks is it is too bad GM does not use a left and right casting for the brake rotors.
For bleeding my wife and I used this procedure-
1.Bleed with key off.
2.Re-bleed with key in the on position.
3.Bleed again wit the key off.
I took the car out for so 60-10 stops to bed in the brakes and they are working absolutly fine.
For the cost compared to many other aftermarket systems I am happy with them. Only thing that kind of sucks is it is too bad GM does not use a left and right casting for the brake rotors.
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