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I am thinking of adding the Edlebrock eForce supercharger (if I can rob a small bank) but I have read that the cylinder walls are too thin in LS7 engines due to the large displacement and I will probably end up ruining the engine (that is why GM went of 6.2L displacement for LS9). I believe the eForce is only 4-5 psi boost. Any feedback from folks who have put blowers on their LS7s?
 

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There has been much debate on this issue. The relatively thin cylinder walls and hypercraptastic pistons are usually sited as the "weak points" for a FI LS7. Hopefully someone with real-world experience will chime in. There has to be a few out there who have run a SC on their LS7 for a while now.
 

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There has been much debate on this issue. The relatively thin cylinder walls and hypercraptastic pistons are usually sited as the "weak points" for a FI LS7. Hopefully someone with real-world experience will chime in. There has to be a few out there who have run a SC on their LS7 for a while now.
:lol:
 

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I am thinking of adding the Edlebrock eForce supercharger (if I can rob a small bank) but I have read that the cylinder walls are too thin in LS7 engines due to the large displacement and I will probably end up ruining the engine (that is why GM went of 6.2L displacement for LS9). I believe the eForce is only 4-5 psi boost. Any feedback from folks who have put blowers on their LS7s?
Consider WHY GM who now sells as a kit the supercharger used on the ZR1's LS9 as for LS3s and why GM uses the LS3 as the base for the LS9

For one you have to be sure the one your buying does in fact match the shape of the LS7 head intake ports.

No cylinder walls, they are brittle sleeves.
Why spend big bucks in total of parts, install, tune for 4 PSI.
Get safer design with good CAM, 100 shot of N20 and a good tune.

BTW the "canned tune" that comes with that eForce stinks, do not even load it.
 

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No need for any more comments. I read post several below mine by logan1080 which answered all my questions. Guess I will do a search the next time :)
 

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PatrickSR: dont give up man there is still an option, get a Vortech supercharger. These are the most efficient superchargers on the market due to the centrifugal design, they are nearly as efficient as turbo. Current Vortech centrifugal supercharger's are only about 8% less efficient then a turbo.

Get this vortech supercharger, you can make around 700 wheel hp safely.

But this only part of solution, due to the LS7's high 11.0:1 compression ratio and the increased combustion pressures from the supercharger boost, you will need to run a much higher octane fuel.

You can run racefuel but its extremely expensive and not practical for the street, plus ypu will have a unhealthy combustion temparture for a stock engine.

Your best fuel to run will be E85 fuel, it has an octane rating of 107 and burns 200 degrees fahrenheit cooler then gasoline. This is an extremely good fuel for these two reasons. You will make 700whp without any risk of detonation or extreme combustion tempartures that could melt the pistons.

Of course with E85 you will need bigger injectors, about 30% bigger then what you would need when running a boosted setup running gasoline. Basically E85 needs 30% more fuel in order to not run lean.

So you will need BIG INJECTORS, a BIG upgraded fuel pump, possibly other fuel components. Also you will need to find a shop/tuner that is profficient with tunining LSx engines for E85. And a guy like that will be hard to find because most of these "big muscle car engine people" dont believe in E85 as much, only some have realized the benefits of this amazing cheap fuel.

But on the import scene E85 has been a revolution, alot of little turbo 4 cyl "tuner cars" run E85. that is where im coming from, i had a naturaly aspirated 1.8 liter car that made 140HP stock, after boosting it made 420hp!

It made 3 times as much power as stock! This is with boost and E85, my EGT tempartures were low, and never had detonation. Thats just how great E85 is.

Prompted making 3 as much power as the engine is made for is stressfull, and that 1.8 engine eventually failed with broken bent rods, but it never detonated.

With the LS7 making up 700whp you will be safe. The engine makes 450whp stock and with the target output of 700whp, the engine will be making 1.555x of its original power and will be safe. But you must run the centrifugal supecharger its most efficient. With the eForce roots type supercharger you will put more strain on the engine making 700WHP if eForce is used.

notes:

With the centrifugal supecharger, make sure you run a big as possible front mount air-to-air intercooler to help avoid detonation and help make more power. You could also use a Air-to-Water intercooler setup, but its more complicated.


oh and dont even think about running gasoline with alchohol/water injection, its dangerous, especially if something fails within alchohol/injection, your engine could be damaged instantly.

The older z06 engine ls6 has been known to make 600whp realibly, and one guy made 717whp through a automatic tranny!

The LS7 can make more power, one of ls7's benefits is sleeved cylinder walls, so 700whp is possible, and if you want to be conservative go for 650whp.

--------------------
:lol: i just spent about 30 minutes typing that...

Either way man its possible to make serious power dont give up so easily!
 

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.... get a Vortech supercharger. These are the most efficient superchargers on the market .....


Get this vortech supercharger, you can make around 700 wheel hp safely.

With the LS7 making up 700whp you will be safe.



The LS7 can make more power, one of ls7's benefits is sleeved cylinder walls,
Couple of questions...

Why is the Vortech supercharger more efficient than say a Paxton or Procharger? What is their special ingredient?

How much boost do you need to run to get the 700 rwhp that you guarantee is safe?

What is the benefit of a sleeved cylinder over a non-sleeved cylinder?

Mike
 

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I'd like to sell you a bridge or your an Obama voter :drunken:

To tell someone who spent 70 grand and that it would be safe to run 10-12 PSI boost on a stock LS7 long term is totally nuts :screwy:

Stock head bolts alone would not stop heads from lifting much less sleeves and ring lands. LSx engines have one less head bolt per cylinder then even a LT4 had, are smaller diameter and torque to yield type that cannot handle head lift

GM just for their own C6R limited use had to DOUBLE the size of the fuel tank, much larger fuel injectors, higher flow fuel system and even then had to rid all smog functions.

PCM calibration tables were not designed for much larger injectors and require a special hack job which means finding a tuner who knows what they are doing, not counting if the PCM fails and what it would take to replace it and getting another tune in it just to get engine to idle.

Try going on a long driving trip and finding E85 everywhere.

GM themselves states not to use E85 and in doing so voids warranty and that is for the stock LS7

PatrickSR: dont give up man there is still an option, get a Vortech supercharger. These are the most efficient superchargers on the market due to the centrifugal design, they are nearly as efficient as turbo. Current Vortech centrifugal supercharger's are only about 8% less efficient then a turbo.

Get this vortech supercharger, you can make around 700 wheel hp safely.

But this only part of solution, due to the LS7's high 11.0:1 compression ratio and the increased combustion pressures from the supercharger boost, you will need to run a much higher octane fuel.

You can run racefuel but its extremely expensive and not practical for the street, plus ypu will have a unhealthy combustion temparture for a stock engine.

Your best fuel to run will be E85 fuel, it has an octane rating of 107 and burns 200 degrees fahrenheit cooler then gasoline. This is an extremely good fuel for these two reasons. You will make 700whp without any risk of detonation or extreme combustion tempartures that could melt the pistons.

Of course with E85 you will need bigger injectors, about 30% bigger then what you would need when running a boosted setup running gasoline. Basically E85 needs 30% more fuel in order to not run lean.

So you will need BIG INJECTORS, a BIG upgraded fuel pump, possibly other fuel components. Also you will need to find a shop/tuner that is profficient with tunining LSx engines for E85. And a guy like that will be hard to find because most of these "big muscle car engine people" dont believe in E85 as much, only some have realized the benefits of this amazing cheap fuel.

But on the import scene E85 has been a revolution, alot of little turbo 4 cyl "tuner cars" run E85. that is where im coming from, i had a naturaly aspirated 1.8 liter car that made 140HP stock, after boosting it made 420hp!

It made 3 times as much power as stock! This is with boost and E85, my EGT tempartures were low, and never had detonation. Thats just how great E85 is.

Prompted making 3 as much power as the engine is made for is stressfull, and that 1.8 engine eventually failed with broken bent rods, but it never detonated.

With the LS7 making up 700whp you will be safe. The engine makes 450whp stock and with the target output of 700whp, the engine will be making 1.555x of its original power and will be safe. But you must run the centrifugal supecharger its most efficient. With the eForce roots type supercharger you will put more strain on the engine making 700WHP if eForce is used.

notes:

With the centrifugal supecharger, make sure you run a big as possible front mount air-to-air intercooler to help avoid detonation and help make more power. You could also use a Air-to-Water intercooler setup, but its more complicated.


oh and dont even think about running gasoline with alchohol/water injection, its dangerous, especially if something fails within alchohol/injection, your engine could be damaged instantly.

The older z06 engine ls6 has been known to make 600whp realibly, and one guy made 717whp through a automatic tranny!

The LS7 can make more power, one of ls7's benefits is sleeved cylinder walls, so 700whp is possible, and if you want to be conservative go for 650whp.

--------------------
:lol: i just spent about 30 minutes typing that...

Either way man its possible to make serious power dont give up so easily!
 

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Couple of questions...

Why is the Vortech supercharger more efficient than say a Paxton or Procharger? What is their special ingredient?

How much boost do you need to run to get the 700 rwhp that you guarantee is safe?

What is the benefit of a sleeved cylinder over a non-sleeved cylinder?

Mike
Mikez06, in your sinature you have a C5 that makes 821rwhp/751rwtq, and a C6Z06, and you are a admin on this forum. And youre asking me these kind of questions like you dont know this? You are either being sarcastic, or are acting dumb.

But sure ok:

1.Vortech or Paxton or Procharger? It doesnt matter what brand you use, even if you find some brazil made supercharger :lol: as long as its a centrifugal supercharger, they are most efficient type. I stated this earlier in my post. Id prefer to go with vortech, they claim to be most efficient, and A&A Corvette went with vortech, so vortech must be doing something right.


2. How much boost to run too make safe 700whp? Start with a ~5psi pulley and slowly go up until you reach 700whp, or close too 700whp. I would not go over 8-9 psi no matter what, even if that meant making less power, somewhere in the 600s. Of course on top of supercharger, at minimum you would need basic boltons, a full exhaust, possibly a cam, depending on how easy the 650-700whp comes. But full exhaust at minimum.

3. What is the benefit of a sleeved cylinder over a non-sleeved cylinder? lol... :lol: im not even gona bother spending time aswering this... whats the benefit of having sleeved cylinder walls in a aluminum block? haha lol.. im just going too say it makes the cylinder walls "stronger" better for boost.. why do people prefer to run iron blocks instead of aluminum blocks, when boosting? :rofl:
 

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Mikez06, in your sinature you have a C5 that makes 821rwhp/751rwtq, and a C6Z06, and you are a admin on this forum. And youre asking me these kind of questions like you dont know this? You are either being sarcastic, or are acting dumb.

Neither actually, just trying to find out what you know about this setup that I don't


But sure ok:

1.Vortech or Paxton or Procharger? It doesnt matter what brand you use, even if you find some brazil made supercharger :lol: as long as its a centrifugal supercharger, they are most efficient type. I stated this earlier in my post. Id prefer to go with vortech, they claim to be most efficient, and A&A Corvette went with vortech, so vortech must be doing something right.

You had indicated that Vortech was "the most efficient supercharger in the market" so I wondered what new info you had that made it better than Paxton or Procharger.
For the record, A & A used Procharger superchargers for years and ONLY changed to Vortech after ATI Procharger told them they could no longer buy just the head units, but rather must purchase a ratio of kits to head units that A & A found unsatisforctory. A & A makes more money from their own kit and decided to discontinue using procharger. Not speculation on my part...first hand knowledge.

2. How much boost to run too make safe 700whp? Start with a ~5psi pulley and slowly go up until you reach 700whp, or close too 700whp. I would not go over 8-9 psi no matter what, even if that meant making less power, somewhere in the 600s. Of course on top of supercharger, at minimum you would need basic boltons, a full exhaust, possibly a cam, depending on how easy the 650-700whp comes. But full exhaust at minimum.

I think you would find yourself at the high end of your "8-9" psi to make 700rwhp and I suspect even higher. Even 8 or 9 psi is too high for the LS7 engine IMHO and I have seen a couple of blown LS7 engines even with good tuning and a meth setup so saying that it would be perfectly safe is not a good call.

3. What is the benefit of a sleeved cylinder over a non-sleeved cylinder? lol... :lol: im not even gona bother spending time aswering this... whats the benefit of having sleeved cylinder walls in a aluminum block? haha lol.. im just going too say it makes the cylinder walls "stronger" better for boost.. why do people prefer to run iron blocks instead of aluminum blocks, when boosting? :rofl:

If you think a sleeved cylinder with a thinner wall is stronger than a solid wall (even on an aluminum block) then I would beg to differ.
Mike
 

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I'd like to sell you a bridge or your an Obama voter :drunken: ect.....
Obama voter? no not really, but it seems more then 50% of americans voted for obama, i was surprised... and now it seems like everybody says they didnt vote for obama.. ill leave it at that, this is not politics here...


10-12 PSI boost ? are you crazy? where did you get that number? id would go up to 8-9psi max! and i would focus on putting up as many "boltons" too minimum the boost level required in order to make the power. boltons such as: a cam, full exhaust, F.A.S.T. intake manifold, knife edged/ported throttle body.

650-700whp is not that much for a LS7.

There is a LS7 guy with full boltons, heads, cam, headers, ect ect.. making 600whp being naturally aspirated!


A guy with a LS6 wich has slightly lower compression ratio then ls7. Made 717rwhp/677rwtq on a stock LS6 thru an automatic transsmission, he was making around 950hp at the crank, granted this was with 13psi of boost. But he was running a smaller 5.7l motor, and thru an auto tranny which looses about 20% hp to drivetrain.

With the LS7 much less boost will be required to make 650-700whp. Because of the LS7's higher compression ratio, and because the LS7 is mated to a manual tranny, so even less boost is required.


But the point is LS7 made 600whp naturaly aspirated with stock bottom end with Heads/Cam/Intake ect ect.. and 650-700whp should be fairly easily attainable under moderate boost


(Id give you the link to the people that made this kind of power, but im not sure if its okay too post links to other forums, i can PM you the links if you want)

So youre saying computer tuning would be the problem? lol software problems can be overcome, maybe not right away but eventually. but lets stick to the engine for now, and not software/tune issues.


GM themselves states not to use E85 and in doing so voids warranty and that is for the stock LS7? if youre worried about preserving the warranty then, theres no point in boosting the car.


Most manufacturers that build a car specifically for gasoline state that running E85 is bad since it is corrosive. Even though modern cars are built to handle i believe its 10% ethanol in the gasoline mix. so our cars are already slightly resistant to E85. i mean even alot of gas stations run 90%gassoline and 10% ethanol. so you might be running partial ethanol already and GM took this into account.

sure with E85 you will need too upgrade fuel components as i stated in my first post, things like rubber rings, gaskets, ect ect, because E85 is corrosive.

Try going on a long driving trip and finding E85 everywhere?
lol well thats up to the person if they take thier corvette on roadtrips to westcoast from eastcoast then they might have too plan ahead. but another question is who uses theyre z06 for road trips, putting on ridiculous milage numbers lol?


E85 is a greatly underrated and underused fuel, among domestic v8's and such. Most of you people dont know what E85 can do for you. Under boosted setups you can make much more power then you ever will with gasoline. With E85 for most people you will never have to worry about detonation while making ridiculous power that you never though possible with 91, 93, or 100 pump gas. And your EGT's will be lower ass well, about 200 degrees farenhiet.

Sure E85 might cause initial technical difficulties, but its basically race fuel that has 107 octane rating, burns cooler, oh and it costls like what $3.00 per gallon :coo:
 

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MikeZ06:


"You had indicated that Vortech was "the most efficient supercharger in the market" so I wondered what new info you had that made it better than Paxton or Procharger.
For the record, A & A used Procharger superchargers for years and ONLY changed to Vortech after ATI Procharger told them they could no longer buy just the head units, but rather must purchase a ratio of kits to head units that A & A found unsatisforctory. A & A makes more money from their own kit and decided to discontinue using procharger. Not speculation on my part...first hand knowledge."



Yeah you can pretty much go with any of the top 3 brands for centrifugal superchargers. Yet, id still prefer vortech.

looks like you have some inside info on why A&A corvette switched to vortech superchargers...

but as far supercharger efficiency is concerned, A&A in thier marketing "feels" that Vortech is the most efficient:

***edited***"

This is why id go with vortech.

Paxton on the other hand says thier superchargers "are the queitest and most reliable" Paxton mentions nothing about efficiency as far as i know.

And as far as prochargers are concerned, i dont know much about em.

------------------------------------------------------------------------



"I think you would find yourself at the high end of your "8-9" psi to make 700rwhp and I suspect even higher. Even 8 or 9 psi is too high for the LS7 engine IMHO and I have seen a couple of blown LS7 engines even with good tuning and a meth setup so saying that it would be perfectly safe is not a good call."

Theres a chance you might be right as far as having to push up too 8-9psi too make that kind of power. But my claim was 650-700whp, so not neccesarilly 700whp.

Yet i dont believe you will actually need 8-9 psi, i just said 8-9 to be safe. I think it would be more like 5-6 psi, since there is a guy with an LS7, he made 600whp being naturally aspirated, he had a fully stock bottom end, he had heads, cams, intake, headers, ect ect. (i can PM you the link to this setup on the corvetteforum)

But the point is he made 600whp with stock bottom while being N/A. And i believe a fully stock LS7 with boltons such as cam and exhaust, will require little boost 5-6psi too make 650-700whp. Again i cant prove this too you as i havent run this setup, but its an educated guess based on what ive seen, and if i had a LS7 i would defenetly run this setup.

And you say youve seen LS7's blown with meth setup, and i believe you. To me meth injection is just a bandaid for preventing detonation, im guessing those people ran pump gas with meth injection. And im going to assume those engines failed due to detonation. Another questoion is how much power were those LS7's trying to make? with what kind of supercharger type?

Again,iIf those people ran E85, their engines might still be alive. I say this from experiance, running E85 ive been able to make ridiculous HP, that i never could achieve with gasoline. 3x the original hp of the stock NA engine, and this is from my experiance. I mean its not only the 107 octane, but the lowere E.G.T. tempartures as well were helpfull as in less stress on the pistons

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"If you think a sleeved cylinder with a thinner wall is stronger than a solid wall (even on an aluminum block) then I would beg to differ."

Yes i unerstand what youre saying and agree with you. But what i was trying to say is that its good that LS7 has iron/steel sleeves even though they are fairly thin.

It would of been worse if the LS7 had thin aluminum cylinder walls.

Basically my point was its better to have thin iron/steel sleeves then thin aluminum walls. If GM never installed sleeves.


-------------------------------- --------------------------------------

damn it takes for ever to type this out :guiness:
 

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Ah, how fast you spin, your first post stated it would be SAFE to run enough boost to get 700 REARWHEEL HP with a stock LS7 and now it's you add on "Bolt-ons"
Name one of those that prevents the sleeves from cracking, even at 8 PSI and handles the high compression ?

Not many cars run at sealevel, make it real world at even 2,000 feet elevation you need even a lot more to get the 700 RW HP

Add that the LS7 is a small block punched out to no real metal to transmit the heat out and the stock LS7 already runs hot.

There is a simple reason most boost kits are in the 4 PSI range, ask any of them to support their warranty of engine damage above 5 PSI and see what the answer is.

Your large air inner cooler is useless, it just stews in the engine bay heat and deflects are away from flowing through radiator and the charger overall increases the overall engine bay temps which only adds to the total of high boost so the BSFC would stink

There was a very good reason for GM even while in bankruptcy did not use the existing LS7 design, tooling, build process for the ZR1 or even the CTS-V, used a air/water heat exchanger for air cooling, used a 2 brick cooler, designed oil sprayers, designed a triple staged fuel system with it's own controller and markets the LS9 supercharger kit for LS3s only.

I really do not care about any dyno queen bloated funny numbers as many of us learned the hard way with blown up LS6s of the marketing hype

Someone who owns a C6 Z06 would well still be within some type of powertrain warranty and to slant them to enough boost for 700 RWHP claiming it is safe is having a wet dream.

The LS7 with just a CAM has the highest engine block and bottom end failure of all the pre LS7 engines and there is no way in the long run will 8-12 PSI boost doing what a Corvette should do in lots of redline shifts stand up to that pressure or the cylinder temps.

Sounds like you do not understand the PCMs, it is not a OS issue, it is the calibration tables and limits they have which were not designed for boost and why the ZR1 PCM does to where it even controls how much boost per RPM and fuel rail pressures.
Add there are far many more bad tuners then good ones and a build your requiring could be blown up in the first month if tuning is off just a bit so your not talking anything close to a stock LS7.

As to E85, let the nameplates answer,
All of them told the feds to shove it and say it is unsafe for the design of even today's engines.

Sounds like you live in a country that hypes that stuff.

Obama voter? no not really, but it seems more then 50% of americans voted for obama, i was surprised... and now it seems like everybody says they didnt vote for obama.. ill leave it at that, this is not politics here...


10-12 PSI boost ? are you crazy? where did you get that number? id would go up to 8-9psi max! and i would focus on putting up as many "boltons" too minimum the boost level required in order to make the power. boltons such as: a cam, full exhaust, F.A.S.T. intake manifold, knife edged/ported throttle body.

650-700whp is not that much for a LS7.

There is a LS7 guy with full boltons, heads, cam, headers, ect ect.. making 600whp being naturally aspirated!


A guy with a LS6 wich has slightly lower compression ratio then ls7. Made 717rwhp/677rwtq on a stock LS6 thru an automatic transsmission, he was making around 950hp at the crank, granted this was with 13psi of boost. But he was running a smaller 5.7l motor, and thru an auto tranny which looses about 20% hp to drivetrain.

With the LS7 much less boost will be required to make 650-700whp. Because of the LS7's higher compression ratio, and because the LS7 is mated to a manual tranny, so even less boost is required.


But the point is LS7 made 600whp naturaly aspirated with stock bottom end with Heads/Cam/Intake ect ect.. and 650-700whp should be fairly easily attainable under moderate boost


(Id give you the link to the people that made this kind of power, but im not sure if its okay too post links to other forums, i can PM you the links if you want)

So youre saying computer tuning would be the problem? lol software problems can be overcome, maybe not right away but eventually. but lets stick to the engine for now, and not software/tune issues.


GM themselves states not to use E85 and in doing so voids warranty and that is for the stock LS7? if youre worried about preserving the warranty then, theres no point in boosting the car.


Most manufacturers that build a car specifically for gasoline state that running E85 is bad since it is corrosive. Even though modern cars are built to handle i believe its 10% ethanol in the gasoline mix. so our cars are already slightly resistant to E85. i mean even alot of gas stations run 90%gassoline and 10% ethanol. so you might be running partial ethanol already and GM took this into account.

sure with E85 you will need too upgrade fuel components as i stated in my first post, things like rubber rings, gaskets, ect ect, because E85 is corrosive.

Try going on a long driving trip and finding E85 everywhere?
lol well thats up to the person if they take thier corvette on roadtrips to westcoast from eastcoast then they might have too plan ahead. but another question is who uses theyre z06 for road trips, putting on ridiculous milage numbers lol?


E85 is a greatly underrated and underused fuel, among domestic v8's and such. Most of you people dont know what E85 can do for you. Under boosted setups you can make much more power then you ever will with gasoline. With E85 for most people you will never have to worry about detonation while making ridiculous power that you never though possible with 91, 93, or 100 pump gas. And your EGT's will be lower ass well, about 200 degrees farenhiet.

Sure E85 might cause initial technical difficulties, but its basically race fuel that has 107 octane rating, burns cooler, oh and it costls like what $3.00 per gallon :coo:
 

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Before you use A&A as the poster child of boost I suggest you poll the boost owners and you may find more booms and bangs of engine failures then long term bullets.

As it is many who have boost live in areas where they are lucky to see 50 MPH and mostly bumper to bumper traffic and very low boost used to where it looks like a bullet boost design is like a young kid with a condom that has been in his back pocket for 3 years

MikeZ06:


"You had indicated that Vortech was "the most efficient supercharger in the market" so I wondered what new info you had that made it better than Paxton or Procharger.
For the record, A & A used Procharger superchargers for years and ONLY changed to Vortech after ATI Procharger told them they could no longer buy just the head units, but rather must purchase a ratio of kits to head units that A & A found unsatisforctory. A & A makes more money from their own kit and decided to discontinue using procharger. Not speculation on my part...first hand knowledge."



Yeah you can pretty much go with any of the top 3 brands for centrifugal superchargers. Yet, id still prefer vortech.

looks like you have some inside info on why A&A corvette switched to vortech superchargers...

but as far supercharger efficiency is concerned, A&A in thier marketing "feels" that Vortech is the most efficient:

"We use Vortech head units exclusively as we feel these are the most efficient units available"

This is why id go with vortech.

Paxton on the other hand says thier superchargers "are the queitest and most reliable" Paxton mentions nothing about efficiency as far as i know.

And as far as prochargers are concerned, i dont know much about em.

------------------------------------------------------------------------



"I think you would find yourself at the high end of your "8-9" psi to make 700rwhp and I suspect even higher. Even 8 or 9 psi is too high for the LS7 engine IMHO and I have seen a couple of blown LS7 engines even with good tuning and a meth setup so saying that it would be perfectly safe is not a good call."

Theres a chance you might be right as far as having to push up too 8-9psi too make that kind of power. But my claim was 650-700whp, so not neccesarilly 700whp.

Yet i dont believe you will actually need 8-9 psi, i just said 8-9 to be safe. I think it would be more like 5-6 psi, since there is a guy with an LS7, he made 600whp being naturally aspirated, he had a fully stock bottom end, he had heads, cams, intake, headers, ect ect. (i can PM you the link to this setup on the corvetteforum)

But the point is he made 600whp with stock bottom while being N/A. And i believe a fully stock LS7 with boltons such as cam and exhaust, will require little boost 5-6psi too make 650-700whp. Again i cant prove this too you as i havent run this setup, but its an educated guess based on what ive seen, and if i had a LS7 i would defenetly run this setup.

And you say youve seen LS7's blown with meth setup, and i believe you. To me meth injection is just a bandaid for preventing detonation, im guessing those people ran pump gas with meth injection. And im going to assume those engines failed due to detonation. Another questoion is how much power were those LS7's trying to make? with what kind of supercharger type?

Again,iIf those people ran E85, their engines might still be alive. I say this from experiance, running E85 ive been able to make ridiculous HP, that i never could achieve with gasoline. 3x the original hp of the stock NA engine, and this is from my experiance. I mean its not only the 107 octane, but the lowere E.G.T. tempartures as well were helpfull as in less stress on the pistons

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"If you think a sleeved cylinder with a thinner wall is stronger than a solid wall (even on an aluminum block) then I would beg to differ."

Yes i unerstand what youre saying and agree with you. But what i was trying to say is that its good that LS7 has iron/steel sleeves even though they are fairly thin.

It would of been worse if the LS7 had thin aluminum cylinder walls.

Basically my point was its better to have thin iron/steel sleeves then thin aluminum walls. If GM never installed sleeves.


-------------------------------- --------------------------------------

damn it takes for ever to type this out :guiness:
 

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Yeah you can pretty much go with any of the top 3 brands for centrifugal superchargers. Yet, id still prefer vortech.

looks like you have some inside info on why A&A corvette switched to vortech superchargers...

but as far supercharger efficiency is concerned, A&A in thier marketing "feels" that Vortech is the most efficient:


This is why id go with vortech.

Paxton on the other hand says thier superchargers "are the queitest and most reliable" Paxton mentions nothing about efficiency as far as i know.

And as far as prochargers are concerned, i dont know much about em.
They advertised Procharger as being the most efficient before their somewhat controversial change. That's why it's called 'marketing'. ;)

I think if you took the labels off all 3 blower head units (Vortech, Paxton, Procharger) you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. I think the Vortech is a very good supercharger, just don't think there's much of a difference between the three. Paxton used to not be SC (self-contained) and required a tap into the oil system for lubrication but I think they even changed that and came out with an SC.

Mike
 

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zmy my this thread is wearing my fingers, im going to try and post simple replys now lol :lol:

racingvette:

Yes i spin very fast, to the red line :lol:

Did you expect me to explain every single detail of the setup on my first post? Every little detail?

I gave a general idea:

LS7 + E85 + Vortech supercharger will make around 650-700whp safely.

Do you expect me to explain everything all at once? Get everysingle detail in one post.

I stand by my original point that LS7 can make 650-700whp safely, in a "stock" form. Obviously some things will need to be modified. What did you think i said to keep every single thing stock about the car, keep original exhaust? keep original intake filter? Keep everything stock and just add a supercharger? And if i upgraded the injectors on the engine that will count as something that i failed to mention, and im adding things to the setup?

Obviously some things on the engine will be modified, but i still consider the engine stock in my opinion. Yes maybe i should of added this in my original post, but what am i gona sit there and worry about somebody every single little thing that i didnt mention and that somebody might poke at me for that little thing.


To me the engine is stock, if youre just adding easy "external" boltons, kind of like adding an intake, an engine with an intake is stock in my opinion.

So if you want the details what needs to be done to this engine then i will cover as much as possible, but dont poke at me if i left some little thing out, because its "implied"

Heres the setups:

Factory LS7 with:
-FAST intake manifold
-Upgraded injectors
-Knife edged throttle body
-Streetable long duration cam with factory spec lift
-Big fuel pump
-Full exhaust
-and maybe some other little thing i forgot, but the heads will not be removed, oil pan will not be removed. thus internally motor is stock.

if you say the engine overheats from boost, add a thicker aftermarket radiator, also the E85 will help the engine run slightly cooler during the combustion procces, im not saying it will lower the engine temparture because the thermost controls that, but e85 might help the engine not overheat. again things like this were implied in my original posting, i wasent gona list every single thing. just the general principle of the setup.

In my post #10, i posted to start at 5psi and slowly go up in boost untill you reach 650-700whp, you will probably need much less then 8-9 psi to make the HP, but even if you need the 8-9, E85 is a very safe fuel, and even at that boost will not detonate, and will run cooler which is a nice safety feature.

And you say supercharger companies recomend 4-5 psi with thier superchargers. That number seems like its right, but those companies assume you will be running 91/93 octane, and possibly meth injection. If they knew you ran E85 they would warranty a higher psi number. Also depending on what kind of supercharger you run, for a roots type supercharger it will be harder to make 5 psi then on a centrifugal type supercharger. If its harder for the supercharger too build boost therefore there will be more strain on the engine.


Intercoolers: Yes the bigger intercooler you can fit in there the better! im not saying to block off your engine radiator with the air-to-air intercooler, but run as big of intercooler thats possible without negative side effects. and its a air-to-water intercooler then place it properly, not just shove it on top of the engine. make things work right.

Not many cars run at sealevel? Please somebody give me a beer lol. Obviosly, the supercharger setup will make less power on a higher elevation, but dynos are corrected for altitude and humidity ect ect. My point is the car will make 650-700whp on a dyno, dynos use correction factors to tune for the atmosphere conditions. Or are you trying to prove that the car will not actually make 650-700whp at an elevation of 10,000 feet? hahaha thats true for any car it will make less power, why are you trying to poke holes at my setup :p :eek:wnd:


Yesss everybody knows a LS9 engine is better then the LS7, why are you even bringing it up hahaha. oh and the intergrated LS9 air-to-water intercooler bar in the supercharger is not placed in the best place, on top of engine it heatsoaks. but it was placed there because of packaging reasons and a more simple compact setup....

bloated dyno queen numers? if the enine make 700 hp then it makes 700 hp, theres no bloating about it. that 717whp thru an automatic ls6 that i talked earlier about? it ran [email protected] in the quater mile. and his engine ran with this insane amount of boost making aroung 950 hp at the crank for two years i believe, sure he might of went a little far with the 950hp on stock motor, but it proves lower hp can be run for a very long time.

doesnt matter how much boost your running even if you run 3psi, when the chevy dealer sees that you have a boosted engine they might not honor the warranty either way


8-12psi? where the heck did you get 12 psi from. i said start at 5psi and go until you reach 650-700whp, or 8-9 psi, which ever comes first.

calibiration tables, air to fuel maps, ignition timing, its all in the software, it not hardware haha:lol: and were not talking about ecu's here

E85 is unsafe for todays engines? i ran mine on a old ass 1994 engine. i live in a country that hypes that stuff? im in colorado you... :rofl:
ive used both pump gas and E85 ethanol in the past, and ethanol is superior in almost everyway performance wise.
you know nothing about E85 performance, and you dont want too listen.

yes E85 will reduce greatly the chance of cracking, due to detonation, also lower combustion temp help, cooler metal is less prone too crack.

so if you really hate the idea of e85 and dont beieve me about its amazing properties, then just stay out of this conversation :moon:

if you live in an area with speeds like 50mph, then why are you even on this supercharging topic, you obviously dont need boost, what are you doing here


posterchild of boost? booms and bangs? this is what this is all about WITH E85 THERE WILL BE MUCH LESS BOOMS AND BANGS, ITS LIKE RUNNING 107 RACEFUEL ALL THE TIME. which you dont seem too realize.



IF YOURE GOING TO LISTEN TOO ANYTHING AT ALL, REMEMBER THIS, WITH BOOSTED APPLICATIONS RUNNING E85, THEY WILL ALWAYS BE MORE RELIABLE. THEN PEOPLE RUNNING GASOLINE, OR EVEN RACE FUEL WITH AN OCTANE OF UP TOO 107. E85 WILL MAKE POWER MORE SAFELY
 

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They advertised Procharger as being the most efficient before their somewhat controversial change. That's why it's called 'marketing'. ;)

I think if you took the labels off all 3 blower head units (Vortech, Paxton, Procharger) you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. I think the Vortech is a very good supercharger, just don't think there's much of a difference between the three. Paxton used to not be SC (self-contained) and required a tap into the oil system for lubrication but I think they even changed that and came out with an SC.

Mike
Haha you know what i had the same idea, if we compared these 3 diffrent superchagers, they would pretty much be nearly identical :yeadog:

But yeah being self-contained is defenetly a plus for a supercharger, it makes them just that much more BOLT-ON friendly and much cleaner instalation. Im going to be going with a self contained centrifugal supecharger on my car eventually, probably the "A&A corvette" version, they seem like they have the best price/quality for a supercharger kit. And of course ill be running E85 on my setup :D But unfortunately i have only a LS6 and not LS7 :sad:
 

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Problem is your world and real world do not agree and has costly end results
Multi LS7s, go boom :drunken:

zmy my this thread is wearing my fingers, im going to try and post simple replys now lol :lol:

racingvette:

Yes i spin very fast, to the red line :lol:

Did you expect me to explain every single detail of the setup on my first post? Every little detail?

I gave a general idea:

LS7 + E85 + Vortech supercharger will make around 650-700whp safely.

Do you expect me to explain everything all at once? Get everysingle detail in one post.

I stand by my original point that LS7 can make 650-700whp safely, in a "stock" form. Obviously some things will need to be modified. What did you think i said to keep every single thing stock about the car, keep original exhaust? keep original intake filter? Keep everything stock and just add a supercharger? And if i upgraded the injectors on the engine that will count as something that i failed to mention, and im adding things to the setup?

Obviously some things on the engine will be modified, but i still consider the engine stock in my opinion. Yes maybe i should of added this in my original post, but what am i gona sit there and worry about somebody every single little thing that i didnt mention and that somebody might poke at me for that little thing.


To me the engine is stock, if youre just adding easy "external" boltons, kind of like adding an intake, an engine with an intake is stock in my opinion.

So if you want the details what needs to be done to this engine then i will cover as much as possible, but dont poke at me if i left some little thing out, because its "implied"

Heres the setups:

Factory LS7 with:
-FAST intake manifold
-Upgraded injectors
-Knife edged throttle body
-Streetable long duration cam with factory spec lift
-Big fuel pump
-Full exhaust
-and maybe some other little thing i forgot, but the heads will not be removed, oil pan will not be removed. thus internally motor is stock.

if you say the engine overheats from boost, add a thicker aftermarket radiator, also the E85 will help the engine run slightly cooler during the combustion procces, im not saying it will lower the engine temparture because the thermost controls that, but e85 might help the engine not overheat. again things like this were implied in my original posting, i wasent gona list every single thing. just the general principle of the setup.

In my post #10, i posted to start at 5psi and slowly go up in boost untill you reach 650-700whp, you will probably need much less then 8-9 psi to make the HP, but even if you need the 8-9, E85 is a very safe fuel, and even at that boost will not detonate, and will run cooler which is a nice safety feature.

And you say supercharger companies recomend 4-5 psi with thier superchargers. That number seems like its right, but those companies assume you will be running 91/93 octane, and possibly meth injection. If they knew you ran E85 they would warranty a higher psi number. Also depending on what kind of supercharger you run, for a roots type supercharger it will be harder to make 5 psi then on a centrifugal type supercharger. If its harder for the supercharger too build boost therefore there will be more strain on the engine.


Intercoolers: Yes the bigger intercooler you can fit in there the better! im not saying to block off your engine radiator with the air-to-air intercooler, but run as big of intercooler thats possible without negative side effects. and its a air-to-water intercooler then place it properly, not just shove it on top of the engine. make things work right.

Not many cars run at sealevel? Please somebody give me a beer lol. Obviosly, the supercharger setup will make less power on a higher elevation, but dynos are corrected for altitude and humidity ect ect. My point is the car will make 650-700whp on a dyno, dynos use correction factors to tune for the atmosphere conditions. Or are you trying to prove that the car will not actually make 650-700whp at an elevation of 10,000 feet? hahaha thats true for any car it will make less power, why are you trying to poke holes at my setup :p :eek:wnd:


Yesss everybody knows a LS9 engine is better then the LS7, why are you even bringing it up hahaha. oh and the intergrated LS9 air-to-water intercooler bar in the supercharger is not placed in the best place, on top of engine it heatsoaks. but it was placed there because of packaging reasons and a more simple compact setup....

bloated dyno queen numers? if the enine make 700 hp then it makes 700 hp, theres no bloating about it. that 717whp thru an automatic ls6 that i talked earlier about? it ran [email protected] in the quater mile. and his engine ran with this insane amount of boost making aroung 950 hp at the crank for two years i believe, sure he might of went a little far with the 950hp on stock motor, but it proves lower hp can be run for a very long time.

doesnt matter how much boost your running even if you run 3psi, when the chevy dealer sees that you have a boosted engine they might not honor the warranty either way


8-12psi? where the heck did you get 12 psi from. i said start at 5psi and go until you reach 650-700whp, or 8-9 psi, which ever comes first.

calibiration tables, air to fuel maps, ignition timing, its all in the software, it not hardware haha:lol: and were not talking about ecu's here

E85 is unsafe for todays engines? i ran mine on a old ass 1994 engine. i live in a country that hypes that stuff? im in colorado you... :rofl:
ive used both pump gas and E85 ethanol in the past, and ethanol is superior in almost everyway performance wise.
you know nothing about E85 performance, and you dont want too listen.

yes E85 will reduce greatly the chance of cracking, due to detonation, also lower combustion temp help, cooler metal is less prone too crack.

so if you really hate the idea of e85 and dont beieve me about its amazing properties, then just stay out of this conversation :moon:

if you live in an area with speeds like 50mph, then why are you even on this supercharging topic, you obviously dont need boost, what are you doing here


posterchild of boost? booms and bangs? this is what this is all about WITH E85 THERE WILL BE MUCH LESS BOOMS AND BANGS, ITS LIKE RUNNING 107 RACEFUEL ALL THE TIME. which you dont seem too realize.



IF YOURE GOING TO LISTEN TOO ANYTHING AT ALL, REMEMBER THIS, WITH BOOSTED APPLICATIONS RUNNING E85, THEY WILL ALWAYS BE MORE RELIABLE. THEN PEOPLE RUNNING GASOLINE, OR EVEN RACE FUEL WITH AN OCTANE OF UP TOO 107. E85 WILL MAKE POWER MORE SAFELY
 

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