[KMeloney]

Hey all,

Not that I'm looking to put headers on my Z or anything... /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif But, I've seen that there are some "sprint car-styled" Z06 short tube headers out there now. At $1500 (or around there, before the GP price), they seem a little steep -- but then there are the lower-priced long tubes to choose from as well...

I believe that the shorties are a direct bolt in, requiring no cutting of the existing exhaust. I like the idea of this. Then again, if the performance gains were significant with the longs over the shorties, and since they cost less, too, then maybe I'd overlook the whole cutting situation.

Anyone have any thoughts on both/either? Anyone get to check out/experience both? Pros and cons?

Thanks, all!

-Kirk

 

[SteveYelloZ06]

I don't have either. However, it is my understanding the long tubes are substantially better for performance than the shorties. So much so that I don't feel it is worth the effort and money for shorties. You probably won't notice much of a difference over stock. The long tubes however, are putting up double digit rear wheel horsepower gains. Due, in part, to the fact that the eliminate the pre-cats, whereas the shorties don't. By the way, thats a pretty car you have there. Looks dangerously like mine. hope that helps

 

[fcalmes]

I don't have either, but have been researching the issue. JMHO...Long tubes are the only way to go. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif Shorties are convenient, but for a true gain, long tubes are it!!

 

[omniglh]

If you have an opportunity to see a stock Z06 exhaust manifold, you will understand why shorty headers don't provide much of a gain (I think the B&B shorties are only good for what, 10hp?) The stock manifolds are practically a shorty header. For the money spent, the shorties are no way near worth it. You'd get more enjoyment blowing the $1200 on your wife/gf.

Long tubes are the way to go. I've heard some claims of up to 30rwhp. I just installed TPIS LT's on my car... and while I don't know about the 30hp gain, it IS *quite* a bit quicker. I will get it on the dyno soon.

 

[don527]

I think LT are the way to go also... but not considering them unless someone makes them specifically for the LS6 heads... meaning headers to match the oval ports.

Ultimate setup for me would be port matched LT headers with the '02 cats and retain the Ti mufflers. X-pipe if doable keeping the '02 cats.

On 2001-07-23 17:09, fcalmes spewed forth this drivel:
I don't have either, but have been researching the issue. JMHO...Long tubes are the only way to go. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif Shorties are convenient, but for a true gain, long tubes are it!!

 

[hcvone]

Long tubes or stay stock, as said the stock exhaust mainfolds are pretty good, shorties will give you 7-10 hp, not worth the price. I have a set of TPIS long tubes that will go on my car the first week after I get my car, I have these headers on my convertible and saw them put on a Z06 last week, the car was very mean after the install.

 

[Guest]

I use long tubed with LS6 intake manifold on my '99 Mallett and the only way I would go.

Long tubed headers are not as healthy at the low end because they tend to have less torque there, but supply lots of power at the higher end.

Short tubes are easy to install since they will bolt right up to your stock exhaust system rather long tubed you have to cut and move your cats furtehr back for tubes to fit.

Short tunes would help performance a bit on earlier model C5s but very little with '01s and newer.

If your going with headers, spend a bit more and do long tubed, but to make them shine, re-cal the PCM code and air/fuel tables.

 

[IMA Z06]

JMHO: Long tubes are the way to go.......

 

[KMeloney]

Wow! Thanks for the replies, all! Not a single vote for the shorties... How about that. That's good info. I appreciate that!

The shorties DID seem very appealing at first, with them being a direct bolt-in and all. But if they don't come close to making the kind of power that the long tubes make, then that's not money well spent, is it? Glad to get all the feedback, guys!

Carl, you have long tubes on your vert? Hmm... I think you may have told me that. Now, do you still have your vert? If so, I'd like to check out the headers some time. (Who did the install? Berrell?)

Ok, folks -- so the long tubes are the way to go. So let's talk long tubes. Is there much of a difference in sound (with the stock Z exhaust)? Is there a LOSS of torque at the low end? (I lost a bit on my Cobra with headers and an offroad H-pipe.) Where does the real power come in? Mid range? High range? Throughout the range?

Want to add anything else? Thanks!!!

-Kirk

PS -- SteveYello, thanks for the compliment on the car, even though the picture was taken when the car was dirty, unlowered, on a crappy day, and by a real two-bit photographer named Carl.. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

 

[[email protected]]

We stock both TTS Long tubes and B&B shorties.

A few other factors to think about: (1)Your install will be higher for Long Tube installation, double at most shops. (2) B&B shorties are 1/2 the weight of the stock manifolds...16 versus 32 pounds and are easily reversible should you trade between years and want to take your headers with you.

Let me know if you need pricing on either.

RG


http://www.exit28motorsports.com

 

[KMeloney]

Hey RG -- Thanks for chiming in. Now, since you carry both, what do YOU prefer? (Please do your best to leave your price point interests out of your answer! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif )

They're good points that you raise, and ones that made me think that the shorties were the way to go. I'm just not sure now.

-Kirk

 

[hcvone]

On 2001-07-23 22:39, KMeloney spewed forth this drivel:
Wow! Thanks for the replies, all! Not a single vote for the shorties... How about that. That's good info. I appreciate that!

The shorties DID seem very appealing at first, with them being a direct bolt-in and all. But if they don't come close to making the kind of power that the long tubes make, then that's not money well spent, is it? Glad to get all the feedback, guys!

Carl, you have long tubes on your vert? Hmm... I think you may have told me that. Now, do you still have your vert? If so, I'd like to check out the headers some time. (Who did the install? Berrell?)

Ok, folks -- so the long tubes are the way to go. So let's talk long tubes. Is there much of a difference in sound (with the stock Z exhaust)? Is there a LOSS of torque at the low end? (I lost a bit on my Cobra with headers and an offroad H-pipe.) Where does the real power come in? Mid range? High range? Throughout the range?

Want to add anything else? Thanks!!!

-Kirk

PS -- SteveYello, thanks for the compliment on the car, even though the picture was taken when the car was dirty, unlowered, on a crappy day, and by a real two-bit photographer named Carl.. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Kirk, still have my car and Berrel did the install on 8 sets of TPIS and 1 set of TTS headers. They did the install on an owners set of TPIS on a Z06 last week, the car kicks ass with the headers. I will tell you about the install difference when I see you. Is that really the color of your car? Who took that pix? Maybe you can clean the car and get a better pix taken. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif

 

[z06vette]

Kirk, listen to carl,he knows what he's talking about.got mine installed last week
and i am one happy camper.berrel does real
nice work the welds are outstanding and they
even put some kinda of primer on the h pipe.
net weight saving is 26 lbs and that is a good thing.car is stronger from 0 on up.i am
still adjusting to how little throttle is
needed.exhaust is slightly louder and a little deeper.i put my car on my lift sunday
and have some pictures let me know if you would like to see them. you really should
get a better picture of your car,where you
drinking when you took it?

 

[fcalmes]

z06vette, I would like to see the pictures. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

 

[[email protected]]

Kirk,

It all depends on what you feel comfortable with. I thought cost was a factor you were considering based on your post so I spoke to the install side of things. If you don't mind the complete loss of the pup cats, which aren't there for '02 anyway, then longtubes are the best bet. The best gain in this case equals a little more money for a top quality product and the install of same.

The B&B line is easy to install, 2 hours by a shoip who has removed stcok manifolds from a Z06 in the past, tops. They provide a weight reduction of 16 pounds and give about a 10 hp gain across the board. As stated before, they can be removed easy as well and no welding is involved. Bolt up and drive on

If you are thinking about a head/cam package in the future, go with LT's, no doubt.

The 5 or 6 sets of TPIS we had experience with last summer, had brackets welded on backwards. I imagine they have fixed that quality control issue by now, but, when I spoke wih them last year regarding our customers issues, I was told to "Have the customer fix it, it's no big deal." In fact, Carl got a set of those and had Berrell do the fix, but, that, IMHO, is not the way you treat people on a problem but that's all TPIS would do or say, "Have them fix it". No offer of a set or sets that didn't need to be fixed and no offer of any compensation to pay for the extra work, whether minimal or not. In these cases, it required the brackets to be ground off and re-welded, which really hurts the coating in that area. And you do pay extra for coating on TPIS. TTS doesn't offer a non coated header as most will have that process done anyway. Here is a current discussion of quality on the C/F:

http://www.corvetteforum.cc/ubb/Forum1/HTML/043725.html

I have had both the TTS and TPIS(our last set) in hand at the same time, and the quality differences are very visible. The flanges are thicker, the welds look cleaner, and the coating inside and out is well done. I know there are happy TPIS customers out there, no doubt, but, the level of service they provided and the quality of there products does not fit our model of a supplier we choose to deal with on Corvette parts.

Let me know if I can help further.

RG


http://www.exit28motorsports.com

p.s. If I had a Z, and I may this Fall, I would go B&B, so I could sell them and put the stock manifolds back on when switching to a C6

 

[KMeloney]

z06vette -- Yes! Please DO send me pics of your header install! I'd love to see them. Thanks! (Oh, and I wish I were drinking when the picture of my car was taken. I think the photographer was lit, though...)

(Also, I sent you a private message since your email isn't listed here. Check it out when you get the chance, and drop me a line, please!)

RG -- Thanks for all of your invaluable info! Gives me a lot (more) to consider.. Incidentally, what can you tell me aboue the FIT of the TTS headers? Any issues?

Thanks!

-Kirk

 

[hcvone]

RG, the brackets on the TPIS headers did not have to be rewelded, they just had to be ground off for clearance. The TPIS headers installed much easier than the TTS headers on the cars we have done, both headers look great and the TTS flange maybe slightly thicker than the TPIS (the flange that bolts to the heads) but we like the "slip" fit of the TPIS better than the 3 bolt flange of the TTS. I like the larger tubes of the TPIS 1 3/4" to the 1 5/8" of the TTS, not that it makes much difference unless you work the engine, then the 1 3/4" tubes will help high rpm breathing. The last 6 sets of TPIS headers are perfect in everyway, equal to if not better than TTS, both headers will work much better than the stock manifolds by far, and you could not make a mistake by purchasing either one. I have no vested interest in either company, I just call it like I see it and would only put what I feel is best on my cars. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

 

[z06vette]

kirk,check your e-mail later tonight,i don't
have the pictures uploaded yet.i am short
handed here at work and won't have a chance
to upload them today but willin am tomorrow.
Frank i would have no idea how to upload
here if you wish send me your e-mail address
and i will send them to you.they are not of
the install just how they look after being
done.YES people some of us work damm hard
for our toys!
[email protected]

 

[fcalmes]

Click on the profile button above my post.

Frank

 

[[email protected]]

Kirk,

I haven't had nay customers call back on qualoity or fit issues with TTS. I think some 'fit' issues and install worries by the mechanic is from lack of experience with the header to start with. They haven't been out but about 6 months or so.


Carl,

...and as you told me at the time, having them bolted up and ready to go only to find the bracket problem and having to take them off etc...isn't a good thing. If TPIS had done right by us, I would continue to carry the product. Glad they are holding up for you. How many miles do you have on yours now?

I see more and more talk about quality issues on different forums which makes me wonder about their process and who is on top of it. You may get a great set, you may not, that's the chance we didn't feel like taking any further last summer based on their attitude when problems arise. Did you check that thread I posted?

RG