[BLEUBYU]

As promised in an earlier thread, i have contacted some of the major tuners regarding their experience and recommendations for headers on the '02 Z06. In general, to this point, I found there is very little information and no "before/after" tests that have been done by the folks i talked to.

Specifics by vendor:

KATECH: No headers offered as a separate component to purchase for street use - no recommendations, no before/after testing on otherwise stock cars of any year.

MTI: Recommends TPIS in general, but has no before/after testing on the 02 Z06, so cannot state whether this mod would show any improvement. BTW, for those interested in their underdrive pulley, it is backordered for about 6 weeks and in the words of MTI "it is a bitch to install but will make at least 5 more real rear wheel h/p"

Vette Doctors: Recommends TPIS in general, but has no before/after testing on the stock 02 Z06, so cannot state whether this mod would show any improvement. Has data showing consistent 15/20 h/p gains on the 01 with TPIS.

LPE: Uses their own design headers but has no before/after testing on the stock 02 Z06. Questions whether headers would have any worthwhile measureable gains with the '02 system - will be modifying their first '02 Z06s very soon.

DRM: Still trying to get info..

So there you have it - it's too early to say what, if any benefit '02 owners will get from headers - at least as far as the parties above are concerned.

Originally, I was assuming that this was a definite mod I wanted to do early next Spring - now, unless I see substantial, repeatable test results showing gains, headers are off of my list. it will be interesting to see, what if anything new the FLP and BPP headers bring to the table.

 

[fcalmes]

I talked to Ernie from Breathless on Sat. at the Joliet show about this specific question. To be fair, I can't remember all the specifics, so I don't want to misquote him. But, he said if someone wanted to call his shop, he would be happy to provide answers.

Frank

 

[N4C5S]

Bleu, thanks for the posts, a lot of ppl are looking at this issue, hell, I'm still looking for clarification on the 01!

JC

 

[NetJunkie]

I think us '01 folks get a good piece of the benefit from removing the pre-cats..which is already done on the '02s.

Pullies are HARD to find. I got Corvette Clinic's last set of ASP pullies this week. They are going on with my TPIS headers this Friday.

 

[BLEUBYU]

JC, from everything I could gather, I would definitely throw headers (probably TPIS) on an '01. The '02, however is a different matter at this juncture. I am still bothered that no one has come forward with a set of d port matched headers for our cars...

Frank, last time I talked to Ernie (several days ago) he was going to do a before/after dyno on an otherwise stock car (or Vortex rammer car) with the new headers. However, I don't remember if he said he was going to use an '01, an '02, or both.

Geezus, this gettin' old crap is for the birds!!! :lol:

Guess I will need to chat with him again soon...

 

[fcalmes]

Ernie told me he was going to dyno an '02 nwxt week.

Frank

 

[hcvone]

The guy flowing my new heads is also port matching my TPIS headers to the heads with the "D" shape, with the new cam and heads red line will be 7000 rpm and they want to get everything out of the heads and headers they can, this guys work is first class.

 

[IMA Z06]

I for one have been following all the threads. I'm waiting for it all to exampled so I can choose the best combo for $$, performance .............

 

[TAMUz06]

Why does it matter if the flange is "port matched" to the exhaust port? I can see the intake side matching the manifold...but as long as the flange/primary is bigger in or matching the diameter of the exhaust port, :-?

Personally I'm probably going to wait on the FLP's...January maybe for release...they've shown some mighty impressive stuff on the LS1 fbody's, and they are truly a work of art...all the others seem a bit "cheap" to me...*shrug*

 

[EBZ06]

Guys,
I'm running TPIS headers on my 02 along with some other goodies. Why would anyone believe that there is not a gain from long tubes on a 02? Let me assure you that the gains are significant - I haven't had time to dyno, either before or after but the car is very, very strong. There's a much greater SOTP gain then there was on my 01 - I also feel a big difference in the low ranges too and that was not the case on the 01. On Sunday AM with temps in the low 40s I nailed it in 3rd at 65 MPH and caught a second of traction control.

 

[BLEUBYU]

EBZ06, I think the vendors (all of whom are pretty well known and highly regarded) are hesitant to go on record about something they have not personally tested.

As for the rest of us, headers represent a pretty significant amount of money plus a profesional install, and speaking for myself only, would like to see some numbers.

Unlike several quality intakes which can be bought for $300 or less and installed by a DIY owner, headers are a lot more bucks. Looking forward to seeing any dyno info once you obtain it. Hopefully there will be some relative gain dyno information for headers available in the not too distant future...

 

[CDHough]

On Sunday AM with temps in the low 40s I nailed it in 3rd at 65 MPH and caught a second of traction control.

Awesome!

 

[don527]

Carl, that's what I've learned to expect from you... when you do a job, you make sure it's 100%... and in this case its port matching the headers.

As posted by another... I too have been surprised that no one has stepped up to the plate with port matched headers.

Yes, they may not make a difference as long as the exhaust port on the headers are greater than the d-shaped ports on the head... but thats assuming by me and assuming by the manufacturers cause they're too lazy to do it right.

I just saw hot rodding tv on tnn last weekend and they were discussing headers and they were talking about making the most of your headers and talking about making sure the headers ports were smooth and free of slag from sloppy welds cause it can cause turbulance and turbulance can cost between 5-10 hp! What if the mismatching in these C5 headers are causing turbulance? How many hp is that possibly?

But if you are gonna do it, do it right I say.

Carl, if you can get some pics of those ports being matched, that would be fantastic.

don

The guy flowing my new heads is also port matching my TPIS headers to the heads with the "D" shape, with the new cam and heads red line will be 7000 rpm and they want to get everything out of the heads and headers they can, this guys work is first class.

 

[fcalmes]

There's a much greater SOTP gain then there was on my 01.

Nothing like a good ole Butt-O-Meter!! :lol:

 

[BrianK]

I'm running TPIS headers on my 02 along with some other goodies. Why would anyone believe that there is not a gain from long tubes on a 02?

Let me ask that back at you - why would anyone believe longer tubes would result in a gain? Why not make the primaries 48"?

The power difference (if any) is not a function of primary tube length. Longer is not "better" anymore than bigger is "better". It just isn't that simple.

The exhaust config has a significant impact on the tuning of the engine, just as the intake runner length and diameter. It's all tied together by cam timing.

As to the 01 vs. 02 question, I'm sure you know the '02 cam is different. What factor that plays needs more investigation..

 

[BrianK]

Why does it matter if the flange is "port matched" to the exhaust port? I can see the intake side matching the manifold...but as long as the flange/primary is bigger in or matching the diameter of the exhaust port

An expansion of an airflow will cause a significant flow loss. The more abrupt the transition, the greater the loss.

< imagine ascii graphic that failed here >

Also, try and imagine the turbulence in the corners of the larger volume area.

 

[maverick]

I been reading about the different headers debating which ones to possibly put on my 01. I keep wondering also when someone is going to match the exhaust ports. I like the looks of the Breathless pipes. Think I'll wait a little while longer before making my decision.

 

[BLEUBYU]

IMHO, BrianK has made some good points here, and said it better than I could. The "one size fits all" header approach does bother me a bit. Who sez that headers originally designed for the LS1 engine are anywhere close to being optimized for the LS6, especially the '02 which has even a more aggressive cam than the '01? I am not certain the available headers were even "optimized" for the LS1.

By the time the C5 run is over, there will be at least 25,000 Z06s out there owned by the "extreme performance" crowd - don't tell me there is not a market for LS6 specific headers...


My $.02..

 

[TAMUz06]

Good point. However, who can design one to NOT "fit all"

There are MANY different combo's...people with stock motors using headers, people with a 422 using the same header...and all shades in between...who's to say what they are "made for"?

I see the point about the air flow turbulence...but I would imagine the HP gain is negligible, maybe 1, 2 hp tops? Not worth the wait for me...*shrug*

:guiness:

 

[don527]

I don't understand what you mean by MANY combos and the examples you used.

No matter if you have an LS1 or an LS6 or an 422, 427 and everything in between... There are only two head designs for the C5... The LS1 heads and the LS6 heads and those are the only two heads used in all those combos engines and displacements and all the headers out there are designed around the LS1 heads.

Right now, there are NO port matched headers available for the LS6 (except for one which I mention further down).

There are many different manfacturers of headers for the LS1... B&B, Arizona Marine, TPIS, TTS to name a few. There is, I believe, only 2 different headers avail for the LS1 due to production changes in the C5. Headers for 97-00 and headers for 01-02 specific years... due to positioning in that a 00 specific header just wont fit in an 01 or something like that. And I dont even know if all the manufacturers make both variations besides B&B.

But if a company can make a variation of an LS1 header because of changes in the C5, why can't they make one specifically for the Z06? It comes down to the $$$ in their pockets.

Now y2khardtop, a professional racer, did mention that GM does make a header for his Z06 that goes for around $3,000. but he uses TPIS, I believe, for cost purposes and no one on this forum has ever mentioned about them except for me. Those headers are as elusive as Loch Ness.

As you can tell, I have done my homework and I welcome anyone to make any corrections or addtions to the above. I think eventually, their might be someone that will put out an LS6 specific header. Heck, I recently saw, in a mag, headers for a Cadillac and I didn't even know aftermarket parts existed for Northstars. So anything is possible. But it may be a long wait.

don

Good point. However, who can design one to NOT "fit all"

There are MANY different combo's...people with stock motors using headers, people with a 422 using the same header...and all shades in between...who's to say what they are "made for"?

I see the point about the air flow turbulence...but I would imagine the HP gain is negligible, maybe 1, 2 hp tops? Not worth the wait for me...*shrug*

:guiness: