[BLEUBYU]

Well, I thought I was done with this for now, but I had a nagging feeling that to properly wrap up this little survey, I needed to talk to Mallet. So today, I did - I talked directly with Chuck Mallet. Let me preface the following with two observations: (1) I MAY have some pretty exciting news and (2) I have personally never had any experience with Mallet, so I would ask that anyone who has step forward to share their experiences. BTW, Chuck Mallet told me that he was "heavily involved with GM in the development of the Z06". That was a bit of a surprise to me, I had not heard that before, and I will leave it for everyone to react to.

Mallet does carry the TPIS headers but he is not a huge fan of them because they are made of mild steel, and he has seen problems with developing cracks over time.

Of perhaps greater interest is that Mallet has very recently completed work on a set of stainless steel headers WHICH ARE DESIGNED TO MATCH THE "D" PORTS OF THE LS6! Yes, you read that correctly - and that was the FIRST time I have had a vendor/tuner tell me this. The primaries for essentially stock cars is 1 5/8", larger for heavily modded cars. The collector is a step design to maximize flow. Interesting enough, Mallet does NOT ceramic coat these but agreed that the portion closest to the engine should probably be wrapped. Mallet says that ceramic coating the entire header traps too much heat and is bad for the engine - valves, I think he mentioned. That is the first time I have heard that also. I guess if you wanted you certainly could get these coated say at Jet Hot, on your own.

The price is $1,200 and they should be available in quantity in about two months. At this point, he does not have any before/after dynos, but he will 'in time" . Also, the headers you see currently on his web site are TPIS, not his. He can be reached at (440) 243-8550.

So, this phase is done. IMHO, for the '01 guys it's a no brainer to do headers, for the '02 guys like myself who do not have pre-cats, the decision is a little more murky. There is damn little empirical evidence (dynos) for the '02 folks to see. Personally, although I share Mallet's distaste for mild steel, the TPIS may be the best "known" game in town. As for myself, I am waiting to see more valid info before I plunk down the bucks for purchase and install. I will be checking on Mallet periodically to see if he has dyno information and Peter at DRM will give me a heads-up when he has some data (but I will check with him too if he "forgets")

This investigator is done for now - its Miller time! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

 

[TAMUz06]

Great!

:guiness: :guiness: :guiness: :guiness:

:cheers:

 

[Lambinator]

Good work!:cheers:

 

[fcalmes]

Mallet says that ceramic coating the entire header traps too much heat and is bad for the engine - valves.

Being an instructor in thermodynamics, I have to agree with Chuck. Put all the shiney chrome looks you want on your engine, but do to low emissivity values, heat will NOT be disipated. In other words, it will not emit energy, your just holding it all in. I have always been against too many shiney metalic parts on an engine.

I have a chrome manifold cover on both Z's, but if I was racing, it would definitely come off. They just retain too much heat.

Nice posts BLEUBYU!! Thanks!! :cheers:

 

[don527]

Fantastic research!

You think Mallett would consider a Z06VETTE.com GP?

don

 

[hcvone]

I know many people that have been running TPIS headers on their C4's for over ten years without any problems, and several C5 people people have had them on their cars for 3 plus years and over 50,000 miles, not to mention all the "F" body cars as well, stainless is nice but at a 50% premium I just do not know if it's worth it.

 

[BLEUBYU]

Frank - emissivity values!!! Now that is a word - so emissivity values are based upon a particular materials ability to give off heat?. I had always heard that the more heat you could keep in the headers, the more efficient they were?

Don, once again IMHO, before jumping into a group buy I would want to have more corroboration (Frank isn't the ONLY one who can use big words ) of Mallets product and claims. I figure winter for most of us is around the corner and the next few months should give us a better feel...

HCVONE, I was just relaying Mallet's opinion re mild steel. In my own case, I did have a problem with it years ago - perhaps there are all kinds of quality of mild steel?

 

[don527]

yeah, your right. i may be jumping the gun. guess i'm excited of hearing that someone is offering such a header but hopefully we'll get some performance data.

don

Don, once again IMHO, before jumping into a group buy I would want to have more corroboration (Frank isn't the ONLY one who can use big words ) of Mallets product and claims. I figure winter for most of us is around the corner and the next few months should give us a better feel...

 

[hcvone]

If you mate the Z06 heads "D" shape ports up to either the TPIS or TTS there is plenty of room for the header flange to cover the "D" shaped port and you will not lose any performance, there is enough clearance.

 

[Zippy]

I have always had the highest regard for Mallett Products, and am anxious to learn more about his headers for the Z.
Please keep us all posted on what you hear...thanks!

Zip :z: :z:

 

[maverick]

Thanks for the research and the time it took to put all of this togrther. I definitely think I'll wait on my purchase to see what Mallett comes up with. I saw one his cars on a show last week was pretty wicked. :cheers: :cheers:

 

[Halltech]

Halltech's opinion

D-port or not, headers have always provided hp by scavanging the combustion chamber and by creating low pressure in the collector at a given rpm (depending on the collector length) providing some draw through of the intake charge into the combustion chamber. This is the true value of headers.

Since there is little overlap in the present cam configurations offered in the Mallet/GM Z06, how do the headers provide any benefit other than weight reduction and looks? I honestly don't see how they perform their magic with the modern cam profiles that are designed to keep EPA happy.

With a drag race cam grind, all bets are off on emissions and raw fuel can be sucked out the exhaust with no problems, since the headers do their magic at very high rpm.

I'm not knocking his efforts, since I would love to see headers really perform as billed like everyone else on the forum. I'll be one of the first to dyno them if someone with an engine building background can explain how these headers make power.

I have been at many, many dyno sessions for three years now, and never once have I seen numbers close to billing on the dyno.

Sean McKesson recently dynoed a set of long tube headers and lost 6 RWHP. This after two different dyno sessions. Power not recovered.

 

[IMA Z06]

Great Leg Work

BLEUBYU

Thanks a bunch for all your effort it helps all...........

Congrats on the new Title................

:cheers:

 

[BLEUBYU]

Unfortunately I cannot address Jim Hall's questions as raised in his post. As I said earlier, I have no personal experience with Chuck Mallet other than my 15 minute conversation with him today. Other than that, what I know about his offerings is restricted to the same press releases and magazine reviews that are available to everyone else.

One of the reasons I understook this survey is because folks like LPE, DRM, Mallet, Vette Drs., do not tend to either post on these types of forums, or make their test results available in this venue. It is my observation that their preferred way of doing business is through taking out magazine ads, getting magazines such as Vette, Corvette Fever, Car & Driver to test their products, and by word of mouth from their customers. Also, these tuners are much more oriented towards develping total performance systems (heads, cam etc.) rather than selling individual bolt-ons such as intakes or headers.

That said, I must tell everyone that Chuck Mallet seemed to be quite committed to this new design of his headers (as one would expect) and convinced through initial testing that these headers produce notable additional power. I urged him to consider posting some before and after dyno tests showing relative gains on a stock Z06. I told him I would be posting the results of our conversation today on the Z06 forum.

Sans test results from him, i remain cautiously optimistic. If he actually did work closely with GM on the development of the Z06 it would seem a matter of common sense to draw the following conclusions: (a) GM thinks he has a lot on the ball and (b) he knows the Z06 better than most.

So, with that in mind, I posted Chuck Mallet's number and perhaps Jim Hall or any other interested party would like to direct their questions to Chuck Mallet. Personally, I think (and hope) that given a bit more time Chuck Mallet will produce some tangible test results - if he does not, then most of the informed consumers on this forum will refrain from purchasing this product. I believe he understands this. Also, I will be keenly interested in discussing with his header customers, their opinions and test results. I plan to follow-up on that.

One other "factoid" to throw into the mix - a number of people on this forum have reported good gains with headers, mostly TPIS. So, I would ask - why are these people reporting gains, and someone is not? Perhaps only a function of the differences between the '01 and '02? Once again, I believe we will have more definitive answers to this in the near future.

Anyway, as always - my $.02...

 

[Halltech]

Pretty good information here

Fairly good article by the President of S&S Headers. Simple but pretty informative.

http://www.ssheaders.com/header.htm

Thanks for the research and keep the .02 coming, we need the info.



Jim

 

[hcvone]

But if your replacing the heads and cam for more performance you need headers to get rid on the exhaust, that is why we are adding headers.

 

[Halltech]

That makes sense

 

[don527]

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=170283

don

Mallet does carry the TPIS headers but he is not a huge fan of them because they are made of mild steel, and he has seen problems with developing cracks over time.

 

[JimGreen]

Does LS-1,6 have different firing order?

Jim Hall, thanks for the SS Headers link. He mentions one issue with headers, the left to right uneven firing order in V-8s that ideally requires a "bundle of snakes" crossover-pipes header to get the ideal 180 degree input into each header bank. I understand that the LS-1 and Ls-6 engines have a revised firing order which makes such crossover pipes unnecessary. Is this correct? That is, do the cylinders on each bank (left and right) have a 180 degree firing cycle? The LS-1 & 6 certianly sound very different from the LT-1 & 4.

 

[BrianK]

I understand that the LS-1 and Ls-6 engines have a revised firing order which makes such crossover pipes unnecessary. Is this correct?

It is a different order, but it does not change that V8 characteristic. Cylinders 2 & 6, both on the passenger bank, fire consecutively.