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Discussion Starter #1
I just spent Monday and Tuesday at Mid-Ohio with Todd Serota's TracQuest group and my best lap was a 1:43.9 Talk about a fun track!!! Wow, that was a blast! It was my first time there and I am hooked!

Just for grins I was comparing my time with qualifying times from the T1 runoffs last year. We used the chicane, which I hear adds 2 seconds for most cars. I know it's hard to do your best lap in the few chances you get, but I was surpised (pleased) to see that a 1:41.9 wouldn't have been off the chart. I'm sure the -2 seconds for not using the chicane is an oversimplification, but it makes me feel good! :lol:

All of this got me wondering what kind of HP the "average" T1 car is. I know you can take them to 2004 engine specs, but they surely don't have stock exhaust systems. What kind of HP and torque can you expect in a field of T1 Vettes? (I realize this will be a range of values)

What about the weight? I looked at the rules, and I got the impression that with the driver you are limited to 3,280 lbs. Correct? Do you gain much performance over a stock setup from a weight standpoint? It looked to me like a 200 lb driver could loose maybe 60 lbs over the total weight and stay within the rules. Am I doing the math correctly? If you aren't really much lighter than stock, can you distribute the weight and gain some advantage that way? If it is 50 or 60 lbs worth of savings, how much of an advantage is that? I'm sure it depends on the driver, the track, and other factors, but I'm curious what you T1 guys think.

I was also surprised to see that I was coming close to the trap speeds going into turn 7. I guess having my 315/35/17's Victoracers, Carbotech XP10/9 pads, DRM ducts and LG spindle brackets means I should be getting close.

Anyway, this just has me curious on what kind of overall specs the T1 Z06's are capable of. I thought it would make for a very interesting discussion. :cheers:
 

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Sounds like you had a great weekend.

The kink does add about 2 seconds, so your times are certainly respectible.

An empty T1 car weighs in at about the same as stock. Much is stripped off, but about 160 lbs of roll cage is added back in. My car weighs about 3100 lbs empty and I normally finish a race at about 3300 lbs, which is as close the limit as I feel comfortable with.

If a T1 driver is light, such as me, I have to add weight to ensure I finished the race over the min. I can do this by adding weight anywhere I want. I didn't need that much extra weight, so I added it in the form of a helmet cooling system (which adds a blower and a 16 qt cooler full of ice water in the trunk) as well as a radio system. With these small additions and about 1/4 tank of gas, I come in just over the 3280 lb limit, so I don't actually have any lead weights in my car.

SCCA T1 rules allow PCM mods and removal of the mufflers, but the exhaust to the rear of the cats is stock. The rest of the engine is stock, including the entire intake. So we really aren't getting that much more HP than stock. Most T1 cars dyno between 365-373 HP so they don't have as much HP as you might think. I can't remember torque. A little less than HP I think.

How much the weight matters is hard to judge. Straight analysis using F=MA would indicate that a 60 reduction would result in about a 2% improvement in acceleration, but laterally and straightline (acceleration and braking). But it isn't that simple when friction, primarily wind resistance is taken into account. So if it was a perfect 2%, it would be about 2 seconds a lap for a 100 second lap, but it is much less than that. I think you can get a better feel from watching SCCA SPEED World Challenge GT and watch how the "rewards" weight impacts the cars. Up to a hundred lbs seems to be less than 0.5 seconds on most tracks.
:cheers:
 

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A 1:41 there with the chicane it pretty darn good. The chicane actually adds about 2.7 - 3 seconds (averaged out) for the course. If you were doing 1:41s, you could expect to be in the 38-39s I would think with no chicane. Impressive. With the exception of Heinricy, just about all the top 10 vettes/cars at the runoffs ran a 1:36 or quicker. I had a 1:35.3 and had the 2d fastest Vette time. Heinricy however blistered a 1:34 flat! Before they started doing MO without the chicane, the top times were high 37s and 38s. Even at the national races during the year, his times were in the high 1:37s. In 03, the fastest lap time w/o the chicane was a 1:35 flat (heinricy), so he found a whole lot of speed somewhere. Even if you take 3 seconds for the chicane, theoretically he should have run a high 1:34!?

As far as HP goes, the spread for these cars (depending on if you've had them balanced and blueprinted, properly programmed, etc) ranges anywhere between 350-390 at the rear wheels. At my first runoffs, my little 01 had about 350 HP. It (PCM) wasn't tuned. The exhaust also sucked. With a good exhaust, that got it to 365...and went up from there when it was properly tuned by the Phoenix guys. Scotty White advertised his cars as having 380 at the rear wheels and they were B&B'd. I'm guessing those numbers were fairly conservative though!!!! I think most properly tuned 04 engines with good exhaust systems will range from 370-380 depending on age and mileage. The TQ will be in the same neighborhood. Peak numbers only tell part of the story though.

The weight is correct. We have to finish the race at 3280. I'm in the same boat as Brad - my car weighs in right around 3100 or slightly under depending on what scale you use. I weigh around 200 with suit and helmet and also have the Cool Shirt system in the RR which adds about 10-15 lbs to the total. I normally finish the race around 3300-3310 w/me in the car.

Weight reductions vs. lap times definitely are not linear. Just because a car is lighter does not necessarily mean it will be faster, depending on where the weight is taken from. If it's done right though (and under perfect CONSISTENT conditions), every 10-20 lbs equates to around a tenth of a second on a course like Mid Ohio. If you reduce a car 100 lbs, you could expect to be around .5 - 1 second per lap quicker...but that is a very general statement!!

Considering you did what you did during a DE event (I instruct for Tracquest, but missed that particular event), you could expect to be a bit quicker with full open passing rules. Todd's group comes as close as you can get to racing without a cage and such but it's still not quite the same. With open passing you can develop a rhythm and start to shave off tenths and hundreths and get even quicker.

Go put a cage and seat in that thing and come into T1 with us. Or better yet (for racing), go to Phoenix Performance and buy one that's already built and fully prepped. You'll save a lot of $$ in the long run and will have much fewer headaches. It is an awesome, awesome class!!!!!! C U on track!! :thumb: :z:
 

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Discussion Starter #4
wtknght1 said:
A 1:41 there with the chicane it pretty darn good.
Unfortunately I already took out the 2 seconds to come up with a 1:41 :p My actuall time was 1:43.9

Thanks for the input. The more I drive this car the more I am amazed by it. What you are saying about the horsepower makes sense with what I have been inferring. It seems to me that the 315's I am running at all four corners must be one of the best things about the whole T1 setup. What do you guys do for suspension mods within the T1 rules?

I would love to run with you guys! I don't have a truck or SUV capable of pulling a trailer, nor do I have the trailer itself. Shoot, I don't even have room for a good sized truck, let alone a trailer. Add to that the cost of modding my car, or buying one, and the whole thing is out of reach before I even get started. I think Brad had a post that detailed his first year T1 costs. Yeah, that pretty much told me I had T1 tastes and a Spec Piñata budget. :lol:

Seriously, Spec Miata would be within reach for me financially and it certainly is competitive.

Anyway, thanks again. :)
 

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Well, even a 43 is pretty good. Keep in mind too that when we race, we have tires that normally have no more than 3 heat cycles on them (at the national level) and that makes a big difference. We also have new brakes and new rotors...also a big difference.

For suspension mods in T1, we use (duh) the T1 kit...from GM. You can buy it from your dealer. If you're not going to do T1 though, just buy the T1 sway bars. That alone will get you nearly 2 seconds per lap. We also use the T1 camber kit. The biggest thing we do though is just set the car up right - correct ride height, camber, toe, corner weighting, engine tuning, etc. That is huge!!! And of course, lots and lots of seat time.

T1 is expensive, but not really compared to the other classes.

When you wear out the Victoracers, try the V710s!!!!! You will not believe how good they are!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
wtknght1 said:
When you wear out the Victoracers, try the V710s!!!!! You will not believe how good they are!
I have heard they are nice.

How many track days could I expect with the V710 versus my V700 Victo's?
 

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IndyDave said:
I would love to run with you guys! I don't have a truck or SUV capable of pulling a trailer, nor do I have the trailer itself. Shoot, I don't even have room for a good sized truck, let alone a trailer.
I didn't let any of that stuff stop me... :eek:

Bought a used open air trailer for $2k or so from another forum member. Bought my wife a Durango with towing package. Stored the trailer on a lot at the base. T1 on a military salary. Yeehaw!

If you didn't realize it, wtknght is Army and one of the large reasons I got into T1. I went and watched him race several times and figured, heck, if an Army guy can do it, it will be no problem for a Navy guy. :lol:

Actually he tought me a lot and has continued to help me along the way. :thumb:
 

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" Seriously, Spec Miata would be within reach for me financially and it certainly is competitive."

I do Spec Miata, and I really don't think it's that much cheaper. Except for the car, the costs are pretty close based on what Brad wrote up. If you can, look at getting a T1 from someone moving up or out--odds are, you'll be able to get a trailer and spare wheels, tires, and parts for a good price. That will hold true on any class that you might decide to do.

Spec Miata is very competetive, aggressive with many more entries than T1 and can be really intimidating. Go have fun with what ever you decide.
 

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Subdriver said:
If you didn't realize it, wtknght is Army and one of the large reasons I got into T1. I went and watched him race several times and figured, heck, if an Army guy can do it, it will be no problem for a Navy guy. :lol:

Actually he tought me a lot and has continued to help me along the way. :thumb:
I guess that means all I've got to do is borrow some money, build a car and I can win the Run-offs in 07 When I get back to the States

Go Air Force :usa:
 

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Subdriver said:
I didn't let any of that stuff stop me... :eek:

Bought a used open air trailer for $2k or so from another forum member. Bought my wife a Durango with towing package. Stored the trailer on a lot at the base. T1 on a military salary. Yeehaw!

If you didn't realize it, wtknght is Army and one of the large reasons I got into T1. I went and watched him race several times and figured, heck, if an Army guy can do it, it will be no problem for a Navy guy. :lol:

Actually he tought me a lot and has continued to help me along the way. :thumb:
Yeah, you can run T1 on a shoe-string budget and have a lot of fun...especially for the $$.

Good line Brad!!!!!! ha ha ha :lol:
 

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IndyDave said:
I have heard they are nice.

How many track days could I expect with the V710 versus my V700 Victo's?
They don't necessarily last longer than the Victors, but they are faster for longer (if that makes any sense). Tire wear mostly depends on your driving more so than the tire itself. If you're conservative, and don't slide the car around a lot, hell, they could last all year. But, if you are pretty agressive and really hustle the car and move it around, you could get 3 good weekends out of them before you see cord. That's assuming 3 or 4 twenty minute sessions per day.

To give you an idea, I just tested at Memphis and was using V710s with 16 heat cycles (racing and hard testing!!). I still wasn't down to the cord, but just about. I was able to run within 2 seconds of my race time with them even after all those cycles!!! Awesome tires!
 

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Lancer033 said:
I guess that means all I've got to do is borrow some money, build a car and I can win the Run-offs in 07 When I get back to the States

Go Air Force :usa:
Piece of cake! :lol:

Be safe on the rest of your tour out there. :usa:
 
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