[tambeng]

Am I missing something here? At the end of the email this is what is referenced: 2007 Z06- Lingenfelter 660 package (569 RWHP, 500 RWTQ) If this is the package installed on this car, I would expect this treatment from a dealer. Right? Maybe I'm misunderstanding this thread.

If it's truly has a Lingenfelter package, can the owner maybe get the warranty from Lingenfelter? I thought that they have warranty for their package.

Good luck!

 

[technom3]

Name just one owner who went to court attempting to use the Magnuson act excuse and won their case ?
MMA is nothing more then a marketing game by SEMA to hype people into buying 3 party parts but has no legal edge to be found free of blame without first going through the court process and until that is done the GM warranty and EPA laws to PCM stand.

Average cost of a case like this that will drag on for 12 to 16 months is about $1,000 a month plus for lawyer alone plus all other costs.
That at the least means the car has no warranty until a finding is decided in court and if losing be sure for EPA to be knocking on the door if PCM or EPA controlled software was changed other then by GM's approval

Again - the PCM and content is owned by EPA, is under a 8 year warranty and as all electronics has it's own serial number, the software has their own codes and the fact any changes other then from GM is a federal crime even your in the right but have a lousy lawyer you could end up with a $100,000 fine from EPA if PCM or software was changed.
Being there is a 8 year PCM warranty there would be zero reason any owner would just go buy one out of pocket.

Rev limiter is not the only thing that can cause a valve spring failure, other causes, too much timing added in tune, knock or misfire tables hacked, torque management turned off and even a bad tune causing AFR too lean causing higher cylinder temps.

I know of two people NOT on corvettes because I am relatively new to the scene... who have had to take legal action against the manufacturer. i know of several people who have made a big enough fuss at the dealer level that the manufacturer gave in and took care of it prior to legal action. No one that I know has ever made it into a court room. However, both people settled in arbitration and got what they wanted. Generally the manufacturers know that its just now worth it to fight the claim. They actually have more to lose than the consumer. The last thing a manufacturer wants is a court case with a judgement against them for use against them in future cases. They play the numbers game.

 

[bojive719]

These rocker arms that are defective aer they only on the 07 zo6?

 

[racingvette]

You cannot beat GM when smog parts have been modified or taken off

Cannot expect warranty for power or drivetrains when mods like a supercharger are installed and why the maker of supercharger should then carry the warranty.

GM pays a boatload of money for lawyers on retainer and just love making the lawyers earn that money.

Bottom line is GM only has to warranty as the car was federal certified
and people are agreeing with GM policy when they sign the dotted line

 

[DucZ06]

If it's truly has a Lingenfelter package, can the owner maybe get the warranty from Lingenfelter? I thought that they have warranty for their package.

Good luck!

Gentlemen, the car was sent to Lingenfelter to be rebuilt after this mishap. My signature was updated to reflect those modifications. When the valve spring broke, all the car had was an intake, exhaust, and apparently, a tune from the previous owner.

I agree with you, if I had previously performed these modifications, then the engine errupted, I would not expect GM to honor my powertrain warranty.

 

[drivinfast]

Gentlemen, the car was sent to Lingenfelter to be rebuilt after this mishap. My signature was updated to reflect those modifications. When the valve spring broke, all the car had was an intake, exhaust, and apparently, a tune from the previous owner.

I agree with you, if I had previously performed these modifications, then the engine errupted, I would not expect GM to honor my powertrain warranty.

GM denied my power train warranty with as little as the CAI and underdrive pulley.

Its the wild west out there now. you gotta leave the car just like it was from the factory for GM now gobnt motas to warranty the powertrain

 

[lorandolph]

There has been lots of LS7's damaged and GM found in most cases was so called hot tunes were big performance gains are marketed to find tuner jacked the timing up, did not resolve lean conditions, nor knock and misfires, turned off traction control and raised the rev limiter with bad tuning and then expects GM to go bankrupt fixing the end results.

Tune can cause valve springs to break but being ENGINE management was hacked which controls how engine functions, SEMA pushed rules would be useless.

Worse if gone to court GM might angle it as you had the illegal tune done and be liable for the EPA fine which is big bucks.

I was going to point out that a broken valve spring is often an indicator that the engine has been over-revved. Not necessarily the case in your car of course, but over-revving can cause springs to break, spring seats to crack and/or spring retainers to fail. I've seen this is several LS7 engines over the last couple of years. If your after market re-calibration included increasing the RPM this may have been the proximate cause of the problem and they may well be within their rights to refuse the fix. This is especially an issue with an engine that's been running for a while.

Sorry to hear about your problem, but glad I heard about it here first. It does give me second thoughts about supercharger kits, as most of them also include recalibration - which means voiding the warranty - I had not - until now even considered this possibility.

 

[MikesZ06]

I was going to point out that a broken valve spring is often an indicator that the engine has been over-revved. Not necessarily the case in your car of course, but over-revving can cause springs to break, spring seats to crack and/or spring retainers to fail. I've seen this is several LS7 engines over the last couple of years. If your after market re-calibration included increasing the RPM this may have been the proximate cause of the problem and they may well be within their rights to refuse the fix. This is especially an issue with an engine that's been running for a while.

Sorry to hear about your problem, but glad I heard about it here first. It does give me second thoughts about supercharger kits, as most of them also include recalibration - which means voiding the warranty - I had not - until now even considered this possibility.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean when you use the term 'recalibration', but if you are referring to tuning after a blower install (reset a/f, timing, etc, etc) then I understand.
That stated, even if you didn't have your car retuned after a blower install (which would, of course be very dumb), the blower install (which would include bigger injectors) all by itself would invalidate the warranty as it applies to the engine.

I'm not siding with GM or the other car manufacturers on this, but if I play devils advocate for a bit, I realize that a warranty of any kind is based upon testing done by the manufacturer before the car is produced. Almost any modifications done to an engine will invalidate the manufacturers testing parameters and throw performance standards and part longevity into the realm of the unknown. As we all know, all the parts in an engine work together rather than individually, therefore one aftermarket part will effect all other engine parts to one degree or another.

Since a warranty is nothing more than an insurance policy, I know of no insurers that will offer coverage for risks they cannot properly measure and ascertain.

Now it seems to me that if I have a headlight go bad or a roof fly off, the Magnusson Act would come into play if aftermarket parts were used in the engine because the two don't have any relationship. But otherwise....


Just offering another viewpoint.

Mike

 

[jtbarnet]

Screw em.....go the lawyer route, everybody can give you advice, but NOBDOY can give you what to do unless they have walked in your shoes!!! I will say there are lots of ZO6 owners on here that $17,000 may just be pocket change, but me??? I would have to do it my self and car may set for a long time until I could rebuild it myself....IF I understood you correct it broke a valve spring and dropped a valve??? if so, you would NEVER need another engine...the reason you need another engine is like a broken rod, crank, block or maybe a valve go through top of a piston and twisted sideways and broke block....even in all of these cases that I just spoke of, there are ALWAYS plenty of parts that you can still use and end up with a very good engine that will still stomp the ground...good luck...like I have said in the pass, GM is ALWAYS looking for a out!!!!
"Never too much horsepower"
Jim

 

[lorandolph]

I'm not siding with GM or the other car manufacturers on this, but if I play devils advocate for a bit, I realize that a warranty of any kind is based upon testing done by the manufacturer before the car is produced. Almost any modifications done to an engine will invalidate the manufacturers testing parameters and throw performance standards and part longevity into the realm of the unknown. As we all know, all the parts in an engine work together rather than individually, therefore one aftermarket part will effect all other engine parts to one degree or another.

Actually I agree with GM's stance on this. I build computers now and again, and I wouldn't want to try and support machines where the owner has overclocked the processor and burned it out, or added a component incorrectly and burned something out. That's why I put security tape on the case when I send it out and refuse to warrant it if that tape has been broken. Not that I think the average user is an idiot or the average Vette owner is going to trash their engine either.

This does shed a new light though on the claims I see from Edelbrock and others that their products don't violate the warranty. Knowing what I know now, I'm going to be looking very closely at the supercharger manufacturer's warranty to see whether they cover the whole engine or just their little piece of it.

 

[MikesZ06]

This does shed a new light though on the claims I see from Edelbrock and others that their products don't violate the warranty. Knowing what I know now, I'm going to be looking very closely at the supercharger manufacturer's warranty to see whether they cover the whole engine or just their little piece of it.

I can't speak for all the manufacturers but I am pretty familiar with ATI Procharger's warranty.
It covers the supercharger unit itself along with the bracket, tensioner and plumbing. Nothing more.

Mike

 

[Vincz]

Boy!!!!

I've been in this beautiful car multiple times since Ligenfelter worked their magic, it's ridiculously fast, loud, and fun!

Get that ZR1 clutch broken in so we can see what she can really do!!

 

[DucZ06]

Boy!!!!

I've been in this beautiful car multiple times since Ligenfelter worked their magic, it's ridiculously fast, loud, and fun!

Get that ZR1 clutch broken in so we can see what she can really do!!

Whoa!!! Hey welcome to the forum. If I can't make you get rid of your EVO X and Subie STI for a Z then maybe the rest of these guys and gals can help convince you.

As for the over revving issues relating to the valve spring breaking, I rarely rev it past 4k rpm and even rarer still does it ever hit redline. Never tracked. In fact, I was just sitting idling at a light when it happened. If those things would have caused the valve spring to break then GM has the RPM redline cranked up to high and they should lower it to 6K rpm.

When my car was at the dealership GM had free reign to sniff around in my ECU to see what kind of driving history the car had (which I would invite them to do). They could see that over revving is not the issue. Moreover, when you consider that I live at over 5,000 feet, the car was down about 25% on horsepower anyway, so the marginal gain from an intake, exhaust and (alleged) tune would probably still not even bring me back up to stock horsepower. Horsepower was not the issue. Leaning the fuel mixture is not the issue either, I have the piston that chewed up the valve, which GM has also had the opportunity to inspect. The piston is not fried and shows no visible signs of running to lean.

At the end of the day, there is only one issue, a bad batch of valve springs. Just like the insurance analogy, if my insurance company wants to deny a claim, at least they will send an adjuster out, inspect the loss, and make a somewhat objective determination before arbitrarily determining to deny coverage. Anything else would be bad faith. Bottom line is a promise is a promise, if you want to deny my warranty, fine, but at least do a proper inspection and investigation before you do it. Don't just run numbers, tell me that they don't match (even though you don't know what they mean) and then deny my claim. Tell me what the numbers mean and why that caused my valve spring to break. Give me some sort of explanation, anything at all other than "non factory calibration suspected- void warranty".

My mechanic tells me that there is a lot of literature coming from GM stating that they are aware of there being bad valve springs on the Z's, but some bean counter has decided that it would be more economically viable to deny claims and see what fraction of those people actually seek recovery. It would have been cheaper for everyone involved for GM to have simply issued a recall. But they will not do it.

My car is fixed and paid for so money is not the point here. I used to exclusively do Plaintiff's work but decided that the world is full of too many crap lawsuits, so I started doing defense work and BOY does it feel good to dismantle junk claims. If I didn't feel strongly about this I wouldn't pursue it, but if I can help at least one other individual avoid what has truly been a frustrating and depressing experience, so be it. I will send a message to GM that it isn't okay to break your promise simply to save some money at your customers expense. I didn't perform the tune, I didn't beat the car- I upheld my end of the bargain. In my world a promise is a promise. GM didn't even want to explain to me why they were not upholding their promise. They didn't even want to verify if they should void my warranty, they just did it.

My car only had 24K miles when it went kaput. My advice to all of you is replace your valve springs at least every two years. That bit of preventative maintenance will go a long way to allowing you all to not be where I am right now.

 

[bojive719]

Last Monday my engine seized. GM roadside assistance was great, got the car to the dealership no problem. The dealership then told me that the car needs a new engine and that it would be covered under warranty no problem. However, when the codes from the engine were sent to GM, GM said that it showed a non-factory calibration (tune) and that they were voiding my powertrain warranty. Now I am looking at being about $18k out of pocket to fix the problem!!!???

I am the second owner of the car, it only has 24k miles on it. One of the main reasons that I bought the car was because it only had bolt on mods, intake and exhaust, which I knew wouldn't affect the warranty. I didn't know that the engine had been tuned which would consequently void the warranty- I never would have bought the car knowing that.

I have read the threads of the others that this has happened to. Can anyone give me any advice as how to proceed. I am aware of Magnusson-Moss, but can't we just get along without a lawsuit? It seems that by doing this GM is voiding the warranty on many unsuspecting people. It seems like if they are going to do that, then they should at least run the codes on your car anytime it comes in for service and tell the owner then and there rather than waiting until a catastrophic failure for that to be the first time an unsuspecting owner finds out that there is no warranty.

What exactly made the engin fail do u know? Did u throw a rod? And were you running it hard at the time of the failier if that motor wasnt ever taken apart they should cover it thats bull if nothing else works clevland pick a part has some ls7 motors used with low miles alot cheaper then 18 grand hope everything works out for u that sucks.

 

[MikesZ06]

.....if that motor wasnt ever taken apart they should cover it thats bull....

Look at his sig, bro. You don't get almost 600rwhp with a CAI and some headers. Of course they went in to the engine.

Mike

btw Duc, I would agree completely that before any warranty invalidation takes place, proper inspection and evaluation by GM should occur. Since they probably don't have an army of traveling mechanics at their disposal, my guess is that they should use the service department mechanics evaluation for that purpose.

 

[Vincz]

Speaking of, check out the pics, very impressive

Look at his sig, bro. You don't get almost 600rwhp with a CAI and some headers. Of course they went in to the engine.

Mike

btw Duc, I would agree completely that before any warranty invalidation takes place, proper inspection and evaluation by GM should occur. Since they probably don't have an army of traveling mechanics at their disposal, my guess is that they should use the service department mechanics evaluation for that purpose.

 

[DucZ06]

Look at his sig, bro. You don't get almost 600rwhp with a CAI and some headers. Of course they went in to the engine.

Mike

btw Duc, I would agree completely that before any warranty invalidation takes place, proper inspection and evaluation by GM should occur. Since they probably don't have an army of traveling mechanics at their disposal, my guess is that they should use the service department mechanics evaluation for that purpose.

Mike, you are spot on, that is what I thought would happen too. But the tech really didn't want to talk to me about this, his exact words to me were, "I am documenting everything because I know this is going to be a big deal" (meaning a lawsuit). He basically didn't want to talk much about it. Before the warranty was voided everything was excellent. Once the warranty was voided, the tech said that it was out of his hands and he couldn't do anything else for me. I even spoke to a director for quality at the Bowling Green Plant who tried to help, but he couldn't do anything. At the end of the day, GM wasn't even concerned with what really caused the problem, they ran the codes, sent them to GM, they didn't match, and they voided my warranty. No one wanted to do anything further except sell me a new (stock) engine from GM.

 

[Blue Flame]

Does that change their position on the warranty?

Unfortunately, no.

To each & every person on this OR any other Corvette forum seeking advise regarding the purchase of a preowned Z06 the FIRST thing I suggest is: If the car "looks" clean, like one you might want to buy? Take it to a dealer for inspection. Have the dealer check the ECM to verify it has or hasn't been tuned!!

IF it has been tuned, move-on to another car; unless, you're looking for something to do internal mods, yourself.
IF it hasn't been tuned and one plans to keep the car, stock?
Have the dealer put in writing its never had a tune, pay 'em if need be.
NO one wants to find out they've been snookered, are unprotected at the 11th hour.

Just never ever assume anything when it comes to a preowned LS-7, particularly the validity/status of the warranty.
These motors cost a king's ransom to repair if and/or when a valve(s), valve spring(s) et al go south. :cheers:

 

[lorandolph]

The bottom line is that you take your chances when you modify your car. I had my Z in for service just yesterday and was talking to my service weenie about this issue, mentioned that I had been considering a supercharger, but now - not. He mentioned Chevrolet does offer a supercharger, and if they install it, your warranty is still good. As he explains it, Chevy will stand behind anything they install or build. I think thats reasonable.

I'm thinking you either wait till the warranty expires, or you go into it with your eyes open knowing the possible consequences. All things considered I don't think any manufacturer has ever been willing to stand behind modifications they didn't either install or authorize themselves.

In the case of a heavily modified engine like a Lingenfelter or one of the other performance packages, I would think that they should stand behind their work. If you change out your cam for one with higher lift the stock springs, rockers and pushrods are probably also due for a swap out and Lingenfelter should have done that.

If you buy a used Vette - especially a ZO6 - you really need to have it thoroughly checked out before you cut that check. You never know what the previous owner's idea of acceptable risk is!

Sorry for your troubles dude, I'd be pissed too, but not necessarily at Chevy.

 

[DucZ06]

In the case of a heavily modified engine like a Lingenfelter or one of the other performance packages, I would think that they should stand behind their work. If you change out your cam for one with higher lift the stock springs, rockers and pushrods are probably also due for a swap out and Lingenfelter should have done that.

Sorry for your troubles dude, I'd be pissed too, but not necessarily at Chevy.

I agree whenever you buy a corvette used you need to have the ECU checked before you purchase just to make sure that there isn't a tune on it. But I want to be very clear, the Lingenfelter add on's were put onto my car as part of the rebuild after the engine blew up. I didn't want to pay Chevy jack, so I sent it to a reputable engine shop per some recommendations on this forum. Glad I did.